How Wise captured 25% of Brazil’s cross-border market (and what it reveals about fintech’s future in LATAM)

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While attention often focuses on developed markets, the most exciting fintech innovations are emerging where mobile technology, young digital-native populations, and gaps in traditional banking converge. These regions aren’t just adopting Western models – they’re creating entirely new paradigms that may eventually reshape global finance.

Today I’m joined by Nadia Costanzo, Director of Banking for the Middle East, Africa, and Latin America at Wise. Nadia drives Wise’s expansion across these regions by building banking relationships, securing licenses, and navigating complex regulatory frameworks.

Her background is uniquely valuable – before Wise, she worked with Kiva in Nairobi facilitating microfinance across Africa, contributed to the World Bank’s Universal Financial Access agenda, and worked directly with microfinance institutions in Paraguay.

Today, we’ll explore how fintech evolves differently across emerging markets, examine key challenges, and discuss surprising innovations where traditional banking is limited. We’ll also consider what these developments mean for established financial institutions looking to engage with these dynamic markets.

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Focused expansion in LATAM’s diverse markets

Latin America is often viewed as a unified market, but Nadia breaks this perception. Each country presents unique opportunities and regulatory conditions. Wise currently operates in Brazil, Mexico, Chile, Colombia, and Costa Rica. It prioritizes depth over breadth. “Whenever we choose a market, we want to be able to ensure that we offer our whole product offering to the customers over there,” she shares.

A key driver for Wise’s regional strategy is customer demand for cross-border services. In Brazil, Wise holds approximately 25% of the market share in cross-border transactions. “That’s because we’re offering a more convenient product. It is more transparent and less costly than traditional financial services,” Nadia explains.

Regulation and Collaboration: Navigating the fintech landscape

The regulatory landscape in Latin America is actively evolving, and Wise is growing with it. Countries like Brazil and Mexico are building open regulatory frameworks. These support the growth of fintech partnerships. They also enable new entrants to offer services independently. “You see how they’re modelling their regulatory developments on each other rather than looking only to the Global North,” says Nadia.

Wise recently secured its second payment institution license in Brazil. This granted access to PIX, the country’s instant payment system. Nadia points out that this has dramatically changed consumer expectations. “Brazilians wouldn’t understand why you wouldn’t offer PIX. It’s that embedded in everyday use now.”

Fintech and Banks: From competition to cooperation

Instead of direct competition, Nadia observes increasing collaboration between banks and fintechs. Wise depends on local financial institutions for payment execution in some markets. Those institutions rely on Wise’s international infrastructure in return. “Partnership has always been part of our model,” she says. “We offer something to them, and they offer something to us.”

This approach echoes the banking-as-a-service model. It is particularly useful for SMEs and micro merchants seeking digital tools for cash flow management. Banks are also responding by creating their fintech branches or collaborating with firms like Wise. They are doing this to reach digitally native customers more effectively.

Financial inclusion and digital accessibility

While Wise currently serves mostly banked users, the broader vision involves expanding access. “Hopefully that will change,” Nadia adds. She talks about reaching unbanked populations in LATAM. This goal is becoming more achievable as smartphone access and digital literacy grow.

The trend toward small business digitization is also contributing to greater financial inclusion. “People want extreme speed—instant payments, seamless transfers. That’s driving adoption,” she says. Wise’s presence is helping local economies, especially SMEs. It helps them to gain access to transparent cross-border tools. It bypasses traditionally complex and costly banking methods.

Building local teams, strengthening local economies

Wise’s model is deeply rooted in local presence. In Brazil alone, the company has over 200 employees. “There’s no one who knows the ins and outs of how to operate in these places like local people,” Nadia emphasizes. Local hiring ensures that Wise can navigate regulatory uncertainty. It allows them to better serve communities in line with cultural expectations.

She also highlights a growing fintech ecosystem in LATAM. It is supported by fintech associations. These allow players to share challenges and regulatory concerns collectively. This collaboration is essential to ensuring long-term growth. It ensures safety and cybersecurity within the region’s digital banking systems.

There’s more work to be done (and opportunities to grab)

LATAM’s fintech ecosystem is becoming more connected and user-focused. In response, Wise is expanding its services. They’re building strong infrastructure for cross-border payments. They are focusing on digital banking as well as support for small businesses. Wise has obtained new licenses and is forming stronger partnerships. This helps them expand their services across Latin America. They can now offer both global reach and local understanding to their customers.

As Nadia notes, the work is far from over. “I’m excited to bring our global products to customers in the region,” she says. And with 2 million cards issued in Brazil alone, the appetite for better financial solutions is clear—and still growing.

The Big Ideas

  1. Each LATAM market is a unique opportunity. “We tend to go deep in the markets that we operate in.” Wise targets specific countries rather than treating LATAM as a homogenous region.
  2. Regulation is opening doors. “You see how they’re modelling their regulatory developments on each other.” Governments are enabling fintechs through open payment systems and licensing.
  3. Fintechs and banks need each other. “We need partners, but increasingly, they also need Wise.” Mutual dependencies are shaping a new model of embedded finance.
  4. Financial inclusion starts with accessibility. “You need to have access to the banking system and a smartphone.” Current users are mostly banked, but Wise is positioning itself for broader reach.
  5. Local teams build better products. “No one knows the ins and outs like local people.” Hiring regional talent helps navigate unwritten rules and strengthens market fit.

Read the transcript

Wise’s Latin America strategy and market share

Latin America for us is one of the most promising markets that we see, right? We have, we have a few countries specifically where we’re already operating in quite actively. Those are Brazil, Mexico, and then we have smaller operations to Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Uruguay. So we’ve been, we’ve been in the region for over a decade now, I would say, or around a decade. And the evolution that we’ve seen in that market is quite remarkable, mostly because of how those markets themselves have evolved, we’ve obviously seen a huge uptake of our product in the market. So in a place like Brazil, we have approximately 25% of the market share on all cross border transactions, which is amazing. But what we’ve also seen kind of throughout that journey is the resurgence of lots of local fintechs who have been really changing the game for banks and incumbent financial institutions, and with that, also regulatory changes, which has allowed companies like wise to really, you know, change things and enter those markets and offer, like, more importantly, really impactful services to customers in those markets.

Partnership strategy vs competition

So in a place like Brazil, I would say that we were kind of one of the first ones on the ground offering a product that’s really cross border in nature. We that has changed a lot since we joined, since we went there, right? So that was probably around 2016 that’s changed a lot. What we see now is actually huge potential for partnerships, right? We see local fintechs who are hugely focused on the domestic offering, but they also want to offer international products to a population who is also changing, right? You see incomes increasing in these markets, people who are traveling a lot more, and so they’re looking to also go cross border as well. So while they’re focused maybe on the domestic products that they can offer, wise comes in to offer this more international product. So what happens is that we have these partnerships now. Partnerships has always been a part of our model. So and it exists, you know, still today, in Mexico and Brazil and Chile, all these markets that I’m referring to, we need partners, right? We need to partner with the financial institutions to execute the payments, especially where we don’t have local connections to payment systems, which is something we can hopefully talk about later, but, but that’s somewhere where we need the banks. But more and more we see the banks or new fintechs needing wise right? And so it’s a really cool two way kind of partnership, where we offer something to they offer something to us. And then on our side, we have what we call the wise platform product, where we essentially offer our rails internationally to allow for residents and customers in these countries to be able to, you know, have multi currency accounts offshore, right? Have be able to do cross border payments at a much cheaper cost and much more transparent and and that’s all through partnerships. And we’re really excited to see the likes of new bank Itau in Brazil, right? These are some of the biggest financial institutions in the region, partnering with us to use our payment rails. So it’s pretty cool.

Market entry strategy and regional differences

Absolutely, we. We tend to look at the markets by opportunity size, obviously. So what we would look at is, okay, where, what does this market offer, in terms of, Okay, is there an actual need and demand for this product? We’re very customer focused as a business, right? So we’re only gonna go and offer products that are needed by customers in a particular place. So where we see that there’s huge cross border flows, we know that there’s definitely a need for wise, right? Because the benefits that wise is offering by coming is offering a much more convenient product, right? If you’re a FinTech, and we can talk more about what that actually means in practice, but you’re offering a product that is much easier to use than traditional financial services in these markets, which are very paper heavy, right? Paperwork, bureaucracy, et cetera, very costly, lots of hidden fees in the transactions and and just, just generally difficult to use. So again, so we’re looking at markets where there’s a demand. Now we would also look at markets and in terms of, well, so before we look at the demand, then we see, okay, once we launched the market there, how much is actually used, right? So is that demand actually equal to the reality, and then we would continue to invest further. If we see that there’s huge uptake, we would also pair that with kind of our understanding of the local market, right? So in places where there’s a relatively open regulatory framework, for example, that’s that’s a country that we would probably want to go after as well, because we know that there’s the demand paired with the openness from the regulator, so that makes it relatively ripe for opportunity, right where we can go in there and operate. So I would say those are two of the main components that we would look into. We tend to go really deep in the markets that we operate in. That’s why you heard me talk about a few countries, and we’re not in every single country in Latin America directly. But that’s because whenever we choose a market, we really want to be able to ensure that we offer our whole product offering to the customers over there. And we will try our best to find a way to do that, usually it will have regulatory implications, right? So we need to understand, what are the licenses available, what are the what are the regulations that would allow us to offer all of the different products. And it doesn’t mean we would not pursue new opportunities just because we haven’t launched everything in one market, but we really tend to be pretty focused on delivering as much as possible in that market.

Regulatory evolution and cross-regional learning

So the region has, I mean, generally speaking, and you look at a lot of these markets, and they’re also looking at each other’s own developments, right to learning each other, which is really cool, right? Because you you see how they’re modeling their regulatory developments on each other more so than always looking to, you know, the global north, right? And so that’s pretty cool as a development, and they’re actually ahead of the curve in many ways, right? So I think with our two biggest markets, Mexico and Brazil, but you see this in also other markets, like Colombia has a FinTech license available, and Chile is developing a FinTech license. And then, yeah, of course, Brazil and Mexico already have these FinTech licenses. And these were both licenses that were launched in the last six, seven years, whatever it is, right, paired with the development of a local instant payment system that is open and accessible to these fintechs. So just by opening it up, you can just see the appetite that these regulators have for bringing in fintechs and fostering kind of the development of local fintechs, not just international ones, but also learning from them and and you you essentially see them wanting to understand the experiences that fintechs are having, openness in consultations on regulatory developments and, yeah, just a general openness to having a thriving FinTech environment.

Brazil’s payment system revolution: the PIX story

More specifically. I mean, I think one of the coolest things on my journey at wise, for example, has been watching how Brazil has developed, right? So, you know, 678, years ago in Brazil, you essentially had two main payment methods, and one was very much like, like, kind of like checks that we have in the US, right? Which, to me, is mind boggling that we’re still using checks. But we had that, and then we had kind of a, you know, form of, you know, just like a local payment transfers, right? So, so was I going to say? So, yeah. So over the last few years, they developed this system called pix, right? And that’s an instant payment system. And what’s incredible about that, it was launched in around 2019 and now, like, I think more than 70% of all domestic payments are operated through pix like Brazilians. They they wouldn’t understand why you wouldn’t offer pix. If you’re a financial institution locally, they will be very confused if you can’t offer pix, right and and just just the development of that you know, the usage of QR codes as well, the fact that you can self determine your account identifier on your pix on your account, right? So I can get paid. It’s almost like a Venmo, right? So you’re using a banking system that becomes almost like Venmo, but that’s in the banking system. And you can, like, example, in Brazil, you can, you can, um, you can choose up to, I think it’s up to five different pix keys, is what they call them. I think it’s five. So you can choose Email address, you can choose your phone number to be identified by. You can choose random, random keys, etc. So you can use all of this and then just get paid instantly, right? And and this is through the like a banking system, right? It’s not through some separate ecosystem, like we have with Venmo or whatever, right? So that’s just something that’s been developing over the last less than decade, right? And that’s happening in Mexico too. You see the development of spei, right? Most payments are instant through spei, which is a local instant payment system, and it’s happening more and more. It’s almost like a domino effect that we’re seeing across the region and, and, yeah, I’m super excited to see what’s going to happen next, right? Because you’re also seeing these countries develop really strong open banking, open finance frameworks and, and I just think that you’re going to see these markets becoming ahead of the curve very soon.

Incumbent banks vs fintech: collaboration over competition

I would say it’s pretty similar. And look maybe in 10 years, it’ll look very different, but in what we see now is kind of what I was saying earlier, right? We still rely FinTech, still rely on banks for the most part. Right now, of course, when there’s a more developed system where you can have access to the local payment system, you know that, which is that’s very different from the US. Right in the US, you actually need to be a bank to directly connect to the payment system, whereas in in some of these markets, Mexico, Brazil, etc, you can actually, as a FinTech connect directly, so you can essentially cut out the banks eventually. I don’t think we’re quite there yet where, you know, all fintechs can completely cut them out. You know, there’s still a component where we still need them. I also think banks are learning with the fintechs, right? And so, you know, again, they will start seeing partnerships being more valuable, similar to the partnership that we have with with those partners in Brazil, where they’re using our international rails, but even even for other purposes, right, there will be products that local fintechs will be offering that banks can’t and and banks are changing right? There’s they’re understanding more and more that fintechs aren’t just like some pesky little like startups on the side, no, they’re actually a real threat if you don’t keep up with the times. So they’re trying to develop stronger systems to kind of keep up with this, stronger APIs that you know, maybe fintechs can connect with, or that other type of clients can connect with. But they’re also developing, for example, their own fintechs, right? So you see this in Colombia is happening quite a bit, where some of the major banks ban Colombia David, they each have their own FinTech arm, essentially, where it’s completely separate from how the bank is actually operating, right? So it’s two separate entities, but they belong to the same bank, right? And so you’re seeing that banks are understanding, okay, actually, clients want a more fun way to interact with financial services, but still secure and trustworthy, right? And I think that’s where the banks, in many ways, still have an upper hand, right? Is that they’re very established institutions. Ins, they bring that trust. They’ve been there for, you know, in some cases, hundreds of years, and so customers continue to trust them. And maybe, you know, you might not see all individuals wanting to, let’s say, move all of their savings over to a FinTech, because they don’t quite trust them enough, right? So, so it might, you know, look different at some point in the future, but I would say that banks are starting to change, and this is happening at a faster and faster pace, and they’re starting to think more creatively as well, because they understand that it’s an opportunity for them.

Banking as a service and embedded finance

Yeah, it’s definitely happening more and more. There are, in some cases kind of regulations that allow it, and in some cases regulations that don’t allow it. So So I think it’s going to be something that’s going to increase, and we’ll see more of this kind of over time and again. I think it’s very similar to our wise platform product, where we’re just using each other for different types of services. And, yeah, you you’re seeing this happening a lot in these markets.

Building a fintech startup ecosystem

So I think it’s, it’s fine, right? Like, I think you, what you’re seeing is, for example, FinTech associations that are present in most of these markets, and that are developing more and more and that are gaining a lot more membership from the FinTech community. And those those associations, are essentially creating a community of fintechs who can learn from each other, you know, I think the worst thing that any FinTech could do is work completely in isolation, you know. So we do have to collaborate with these fintechs to have some form of influence on how the market is developing. So if a regulation is being issued, that makes zero sense for how a FinTech operates. There’s more power in unifying and doing it together, right? So approaching regulators together, obviously, you know, we each have our priorities and where, you know, we’re all maybe competitors to a certain extent. So, so, you know, there’s limitations, but I do think there’s, there’s a lot of value in working together on that. And then beyond that, there’s, there’s a lot of talent in these markets, right? So you it’s actually like, you know, when you go out there and you start hiring, you see not just the talent, but just this hunger for working on these kind of different, more innovative products, and people are super knowledgeable, and that ranges from anything from lawyers to engineers, right? And so I think the importance there is really building a strong local team and building a team who really understands the market. And this is more specifically speaking, from an outside perspective. You know, I think when you’re building something inside, obviously that’s, that’s kind of, yeah, it’s kind of obvious, right? Like, yeah, we’re gonna hire people who understand the market. But I think if you’re an international FinTech who’s trying to enter these markets, I mean, there’s no one who knows the ins and outs of how to operate in these places, like local people also, because there’s a lot of unwritten rules. And I think it’s maybe like that everywhere, but, but you see this a lot of them domestic in your domestic market, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So there’s, like, a very clear regulatory framework, but then there’s also the murky nuances and and that is natural when you have a regulatory framework that’s developing is that there’s always going to be lack of clarity over something within that regulation. And so hiring a really strong local team, I think, is kind of what helps you really break kind of the barriers and then really be able to figure it out. And I’m proud to say that we’ve built a really, really strong local presence, at least in Brazil, we have, we have over 200 people in that office right now, and it’s consistently growing. We’re going to be hiring lots in the coming years. So so yeah, and it’s just really fun to see, wow, like all these people who are so passionate about improving the the financial services industry in their market.

Regulatory risk and adaptation

There’s definitely risk, but I think it’s, you know, it’s, it’s risk that also the regulators are aware of if I’m understanding your your your question correctly, because things can change at any moment, right? Usually there’s enough notice in advance. And once you are a licensed entity, it’s a lot easier to kind of get in the know of, or get get, you know the preliminary announcements, if we want to call them that of you know, how things might be evolving, how things might change. So I would say the regulators tend to be quite open in that now maybe the some of the risk could be more associated to, okay, you’re, you’re enabling lots of new players to come in. You know, what are other kind of risks that might arise? You know, like cyber security risks, privacy risks, et cetera. And I think globally, we’re seeing a lot more focus on that in the last few years, developments of privacy laws, et cetera. And that’s something that’s ever changing. And yeah, just something that as institutions, you need to keep, keep in mind, OK, how are you going to develop a system that’s going to be able to withstand cybersecurity threats, or that’s going to protect the privacy of your individuals. So those risks are going to continue coming up. But I would say that the the central banks and regulators have actually done a really good job about, you know, putting really stringent security protocols in place for their own payment system, right? So to ensure that whoever’s coming onto the system is very robust, and so, of course, that makes it very difficult to do, you know, the integrations that are necessary and to comply. But I think it’s a good thing, right? I think it protects consumers, which is ultimately what we want.

Customer demographics: banked vs unbanked

For us, I would say we’re targeting mostly a banked community. Hopefully that’ll change. I’ll explain why in a second. But typically, you know, to use our services, you need to have access to the banking system and and while I do think that that’s becoming easier in the region. Obviously, there’s still barriers to financial inclusion, but, but you still, you know right now, you still need to be part of the banking ecosystem. You need to have a smartphone, right, or a computer, right, because you need to be able to onboard and that is all done remotely, right? And so you need to be able to do the checks remotely. And so in that sense, you need to be kind of tech savvy to a certain extent. Like, you know, we have customers of all ages, of all ranges, right, all types and and, you know, we really focus on developing our product and doing user research to make sure that we’re developing such that everyone there’s, there’s high accessibility of it. But you know, again, I would say that most of our consumers are people who already have access to financial services. And the reason why I say like, hopefully that will change, is because, you know, I think with the kind of increase in fintechs in these markets, you’re also seeing the ability to to onboard or for customers to understand how to operate within a like more traditional or more formal, let’s say financial system, rather than a cash based system, is going to be increasing. So, you know, I think globally, there’s a trend, especially post COVID Probably. But even just in general, where cash is becoming less of King. And you know, as I was saying earlier, you’re seeing more people wanting to have that extreme speed right like instant payments right away. They want to get access to their money. They want to be able to make a payment and not think about it again. And that’s happening more and more. You’re seeing cash reducing, and typically the people who are using cash are people who are kind of the unbanked, so So yeah, hopefully that will change in the future, as, you know, as kind of people shift away from the cash based mindset. But you know, it’s still, it’s still pretty present.

Emerging opportunities: super apps and credit innovation

Yeah, it’s an interesting one. I think what you’re seeing a lot more, but this is super hard to develop, is this focus on, like, super apps. So you see that a lot in Asia, right? And I think more and more you’re seeing specific ones pop up in each domestic market, right? So an app that will allow you to offer all types of services all in one place, I would say there’s that the I would say the region tends to be very credit oriented, and that’s been kind of the success of Nubank, right? Like, you know, they’ve sold credit, and they basically have democratized credit, credit for all of Brazilians, right? That’s why you see the vast majority of Brazilians actually have an account with Nubank, and why you’re seeing success in other markets as well. It’s very impressive, right? So you Yeah, you’ll definitely see credit being a space where, you know, there’s, there’s probably a lot of innovation that can continue to take place, and that, you know there’s, there’s clearly appetite and need for that, for local consumers.

2025 goals and product expansion

I’m really excited, you know. So we got a license in Brazil last year, our second license in Brazil last year, to the payments institution license. And so for me now, I’m really excited that now we’ve done most of the work to, you know, be fully compliant and to access the local payment system. It’s like, okay, what other doors did this? Does this open for us over there? But more generally speaking, I’m just excited for us to really bring our global products to to customers in the region, right? You know, I mean, like, we’ve seen such big appetite in in a place like Brazil for our account product in in in Brazil. So globally, we have around 11 million cards issued, and I think 2 million are in Brazil, right? And we, we launched cards in Brazil, like, four years ago or something. So, so you just see, like, wow, there’s such appetite for this. And I’m really excited to bring that to the rest of the region, you know, probably starting with Mexico as one of the bigger markets. But you know, how can we bring that, then to to the other markets? So I know that there’s the demand and and more broadly, right? You know, we have, we have an assets product as well. So that’s basically where we’re allowing customers to to put money aside and in a money market fund, right, and make a bit of a return. How do we allow that for for local customers, right? Because that’s a huge, huge opportunity as well. So it’s really like, going back to what I was saying earlier, is, how do we bring our entire product offering and really build something that’s very localized and very strong for the customer base in the region? I think that’s just, you know, something that keeps me excited every day.

“Embedded investing isn’t a feature — it’s a platform”: DriveWealth’s Harry Temkin on the future of investing

DriveWealth harry temkin

The financial services industry is undergoing deep technological change. API-first architectures are creating new possibilities for integration. Digital platforms are democratizing access to investing. Artificial intelligence is personalizing wealth management. Digital-first brokerages are redefining what’s possible. Global investing barriers are falling. Traditional firms are navigating complex digital transformations. And infrastructure companies are scaling to meet growing demands.

To help us understand these critical trends, we’re joined by Harry Temkin, Chief Digital Officer at DriveWealth. DriveWealth is at the forefront of embedded investing technology, powering fractional trading and digital investment experiences for partners across the globe. As CDO, Harry leads the company’s technology strategy and digital innovation initiatives, bringing decades of experience in financial technology.

Temkin shares, “Our mission is to democratize investing through embedded finance. We’re powering digital wallets around the world. We’re making it seamless for users to invest in U.S. equities, even if they’re in countries where that wasn’t possible before.”

What makes DriveWealth stand out is its technology stack. It enables global retail investing at scale, powering apps from Brazil to the Philippines. “We’re not just a brokerage. We’re a technology firm that embeds investment capability into ecosystems.” Temkin notes.

He also discusses how real-time trading and fractional investing are changing expectations. “People want to make decisions quickly, and our systems make that possible in real time, not hours later.”

As digital platforms evolve, DriveWealth is preparing to integrate emerging technologies. Such as merging generative AI to further enhance user engagement. “We’re looking at how AI can personalize investment journeys, not just provide chat responses,” Temkin says.

Listen to the full episode

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts I SoundCloud I Spotify

Watch the episode

Enabling cross-border investing with embedded technology

At the heart of DriveWealth’s strategy is cross-border investing, allowing users in Latin America, Asia, and beyond to access U.S. equities. “We’re operating in over 150 countries today,” Temkin shares. “And it’s all powered through APIs that integrate with digital wallets and fintech apps.”

The conversation dives into how DriveWealth partners with digital wallets, neobanks, and super apps to bring investment functionality directly to end-users. “What we’re doing is embedding the brokerage experience directly into those platforms,” Temkin explains.

He also highlights the regulatory complexities of operating globally. “Every market has its own KYC/AML requirements. Our job is to streamline that, to abstract complexity away from our partners.”

The power of real-rime trading

Real-time trading isn’t just a feature — it’s foundational to user trust and experience, says Temkin. “When someone executes a trade, they want confirmation and clarity immediately. That’s what we deliver.”

DriveWealth’s platform enables fractional, real-time execution of trades. This makes investment accessible even for users without large capital. “We don’t just support buying a share of Apple; we let you buy $5 worth of Apple, instantly,” Temkin adds.

This has opened new opportunities for fintechs offering stock back rewards, giving users fractional shares as loyalty incentives. “It’s one of the fastest-growing embedded investment use cases,” he notes.

From APIs to personalization: What’s next in Embedded Finance

Temkin shares that DriveWealth’s roadmap includes more than just APIs and execution. “We’re thinking about next-gen engagement: how do we use generative AI to guide users based on their behavior, preferences, and goals?”

He adds that personalization will be critical in making digital investment experiences feel natural, not forced. “We’re evolving from passive tools to active partners in a user’s financial life.”

Generative AI might soon play a role in surfacing insights and next steps for users. It may even create an intelligent interface for investing. “This could be a game-changer for less experienced investors,” Temkin suggests.

The Big Ideas

  1. Embedded investment is an infrastructure play, not just a feature. “We’re not adding investing to apps. We’re powering platforms that center investment in everyday experiences.”
  1. DriveWealth is making global retail investment seamless. “From Brazil to Indonesia, users are accessing U.S. markets without needing to know what happens behind the curtain.”
  1. Stock back rewards are building financial engagement. “You spend money and get a piece of the companies you support. People love that. It’s simple, but powerful.”
  1. Real-time trading is no longer optional. “It builds trust. People need to see confirmation and execution instantly. That’s become the norm.”
  1. Generative AI could become a personalized investment guide. “AI won’t replace the interface, but it could enhance understanding and help users take smarter actions.”

Read the transcript (for TS Pro subscribers)

DriveWealth’s API-first origins

I think it’s kind of cool to talk a little bit about our roots. Bob Courtright founded the company back in 2012. He had built a phenomenal FX business, a global effects business, and realized that there was this huge gap – that there was demand by global retail investors to have access to US Securities trading. Ultimately, back then, the real problem was there were huge technological barriers, and there were huge financial barriers. If you remember back then, we had stocks like Priceline and Google that were trading at hundreds of dollars, if not thousands of dollars. And to a new, nascent retail investor, it just wasn’t accessible financially for them.

And then, of course, the technology. When you think about legacy brokerage technology, you’re talking about massive order management systems, fixed connectivity, beginning of day files. And you had clients, you had partners who were building these new mobile experiences, and they didn’t have a clue what an order management system was, much less fixed connectivity. And so really we had to rethink the way that we would deliver brokerage at scale globally.

Building cloud-based brokerage as a service

Bob’s vision was to really build the first cloud-based API-delivered brokerage as a service platform. What does that mean? It allows our partners, effectively, to natively embed investing directly into their mobile experience or their web experience with literally no traditional brokerage infrastructure. All of these new emerging FinTech firms, digital wallets in particular, they want an API-based experience. That’s really their expectation. And if you walked in and said, you need fix, you need order management, you’re gonna have to do statements, confirms, handle corporate actions – that really wasn’t going to fly.

So ultimately, we set out to build a new brokerage type of infrastructure that literally would handle all the components of brokerage – onboarding, money movement, order management, portfolio management and all the post-trade services, corporate actions and the like, and to really serve that up in an API. So that solved the technical barrier to entry, then we had to really solve the financial barrier to entry, and the way that we did that was we truly were the pioneers of fractional investing. We enabled securities to be fractionalized, ultimately, to just send us a notional order. Back then, we started with a minimum amount of $1. Today, we actually go to a penny, which creates all kinds of other really cool products, like roundups and other things that many of our clients take advantage of. But when you combine those two things – the fractional trading capability and the technological advancement of delivering everything to an API – all of a sudden it unlocked all of these new markets and these new types of partners to be able to bring investing to their client base.

Early vision for global expansion

Bob had built this global retail base of currency investors, or currency traders. I think ultimately, he began to see, particularly from foreign investors, this demand. They wanted access to these huge brands. Certainly, these technology stocks were incredibly popular, they were very expensive, but there were all those barriers. When we started the company, some of our earliest partners, like our earliest partner in the United States was MoneyLion. Today, you can see the size and how big MoneyLion has grown their business, and they’ve expanded their product and capabilities with us over those years.

But certainly, we were very focused outside the United States. We saw new entrants in the Australian market. We have Stake, which is a digital broker dealer, going way back to the early days. Then ultimately, we were focused heavily on Asia. You had all of these traders who wanted access to the US market. And it was very challenging to give them that access without this sort of change in technology to make it available through a mobile application. From our very early days, we were very much focused outside the United States. That’s why I say the demand by a global retail investor and reaching all of these new entrants – the US market was pretty saturated.

Innovation with digital wallets

It didn’t mean that there weren’t also new players coming into the market. Certainly, one of our biggest clients, and one where we had built some incredibly cool, innovative technology, is Cash App. Many of your listeners may not realize that we power all of the equity investing in Cash App, as we do in Revolut Securities. These are some of the largest digital wallets in the world.

What was super cool about what Cash App wanted to do, and other wallets, and we made some really significant innovation in money movement – they wanted to tie the brokerage account so much more closely to the wallet. In a sense, they wanted the brokerage account just to be a sleeve of the wallet. When you think about traditional brokerage, what do you need to do? I have my bank account, and then I have my brokerage account. Typically, they were at two different parties. So you have to go through the onboarding process of brokerage – back then that actually potentially took a day, upload a driver’s license, some paper form, potentially. Our innovation was to make it totally digital, onboard just about instantaneously, and then to be able to actually trade instantaneously as well. Those kinds of things had never been done before – to go directly from nothing to actually owning a stock within seconds.

Eliminating friction points

The idea was, we want to actually have the digital wallet be the one account of record where all the money stays. I don’t want to have to have the user think about wiring money or transferring money over to my brokerage account, and then I have a separate buying power in the brokerage account. Now I have a wallet over here on the left, and I have another application for brokerage on the right, and I have to think about moving money. All of those things were barriers. They were friction points, particularly for a new investor.

So imagine a world in which you’ve got a wallet user, and they’re using that wallet to do peer-to-peer payments, send money to a friend, pay for dinner with a friend. They’re using that wallet to go into a coffee shop and tap the phone or use the debit card. Imagine a world in which that experience would be exactly the same as buying Starbucks stock. So I went into Starbucks, I tapped the phone, it took $6 out of my wallet, and then immediately I said, “Oh, go buy $6 of Starbucks stock,” the money just came out of the wallet. There was no wait, I have to transfer money first. How much buying power do I have? It was incredibly transformational. All of a sudden, all of these friction points we were able to eliminate with our technology and to create an experience that had never been done before. For us at DriveWealth, that’s always what it’s been about when we think about digital innovation and brokerage – how do we take traditional, analog brokerage and do something different, deliver it through an API, build something that hasn’t been done to enable this really cool, unique experience that our partners want to bring to the marketplace.

AI’s impact on financial services

I think it’s a really interesting question. For us, remember, we’re really like the Intel model – we’re the Intel platform inside. We create or enable the investing experience with our partners, and so now a lot of our partners certainly are engaging AI, whether that’s to, particularly in a managed account structure, build more efficient portfolios, more accurate portfolios for a client based on their profile or how they onboard, and have that be more dynamic in terms of potentially rebalancing and those things.

For us on the backside, certainly AI will help tremendously around risk management with respect to anti-money laundering, our monitoring of transactions through our platform, our customer service portal in terms of how our partners engage with us. We can create much more efficient experiences with AI for our partners in terms of the way they work with us. So there’s both the back end and there’s the front end. A lot of our partners are beginning to think about how they utilize AI to bring a better investing experience to their customers. And then, on our side, we are thinking about how we use AI to be more efficient in our processes.

Today, we support over 20 million users, so there are a lot of really cool tools that we use today to monitor transactions, monitor money movement, continuously monitor users on the platform for sanctions or other things. And I think these emerging technologies significantly help in the process of monitoring and managing all of those things.

Redefining digital brokerage

Let’s break it up into a couple of different archetypes. One is, obviously, global digital wallets – it’s one of our sweet spots. We power Cash App, we power Revolut, we power Toss Securities in South Korea. We pretty much are powering some of the largest digital wallets around the world.

We also obviously cater to traditional broker dealers and asset managers who are making the move to digital, meaning they’re investing in their infrastructure. They want to build a new digital experience for not just a nascent retail investor, but even their high net worth investors. Give them a whole new experience, give them better access to their advisor and what they can do within the application.

We’ve always kind of been in the space of servicing digital robo advisors and some of the tools that we provide them. And then, interestingly enough, what we’re seeing now is you’ve got some of the big retail platforms coming into the space. When you look globally at some of the biggest retail platforms and their mobile experiences, they’re going well beyond just a shopping experience. They’re offering buy now, pay later. They’re offering insurance products. They’re offering banking products. We had that concept just a couple years back of the Super App, and a lot of these companies are doing just that. They have a huge user base that they want to continue to engage and to retain, and in order to do that, they need to continue to provide more services to that customer, and to tie these capabilities all together into the other experiences that they already provide.

The power of roundups and behavioral finance

With digital wallets, to me, it’s one of the coolest experiences that we’ve been able to create – this ability to take a brokerage account and literally put it inside of a wallet as just a sleeve. I don’t need to think about movement of money anymore. It’s just another element of the wallet and that experience. So buying a cup of coffee or buying six bucks of Starbucks becomes exactly the same thing.

But even more importantly, you can tie other really cool, innovative features. One of the biggest things that we’ve seen to draw users in and to engage a user is the Roundup. Every time you swipe the card, the remainder up to the nearest dollar gets immediately invested in a stock of choice. Imagine as that continues to be enhanced. Imagine a world in which we can actually recognize what you bought with your card. So, oh, I went into McDonald’s and I bought a hamburger. We can round that up into McDonald’s stock. Oh, I walked into a Starbucks and I bought a cup of coffee, I rounded up the remainder into Starbucks stock. So imagine being able to code against the transaction code, understanding where you purchase something. And if it’s a public company, be able to do that. There are companies today who actually have that software that does that.

I always have felt that at some point, credit card companies, instead of cash back, would do stock back rewards. I think there’s going to be an evolution here of how you can continually tie investing against spending and the like. When we kind of pitch clients about the beauty of roundups, I talk about the balance between spending and investing. The most important thing for a young investor is beginning the investing journey, the savings journey.

The Roundup, to me is super cool, because if I go into a store and I buy whatever, it doesn’t matter, I spend $10.40, the other 60 cents, which rounds me up to $11 – did I notice that? No, what’s the difference between $10.40 and $11? But all of a sudden, I put 60 cents away. Now a lot of listeners here might say, “Well, geez, 60 cents. What’s that going to do?” In my account alone, I’ve done on my Cash App account, I’ve already done well over 1,000 roundups. I’ve been putting the money into Nvidia and even though we’ve had some really big swings in the market, I’ve amassed $500 in Nvidia return and roundups that I never felt – I didn’t even realize, it had no impact on my digital wallet. I didn’t see all of a sudden the money disappear. But I’ve already amassed $500 in investing. That’s the power of a roundup, particularly for a young investor – it gets their journey started with no real financial impact to them.

What we’ve seen is a huge percent of users that use roundups on any of the platforms end up actually going on to becoming a self-directed investor. They then go do their own trading in the account. So it’s an incredible engagement tool or retention tool. And I think you’re going to continue to see those types of tools evolve, whether that’s stock back reward or the like. And it’s all made possible because of the technology of having ease of integration and a fractionalization engine that allows you to trade any stock for as little as a penny.

Passive and active integration

It sounds almost like you’re saying once you’ve gotten over that technological hurdle of not having a separate bucket for your brokerage account, and it’s integrated into a wallet experience, and you’re tying together brokerage experiences into your core experiences, then brokerage is something you don’t go to and it’s something that kind of happens in the background. There’s a passive role of brokerage.

It’s both – it’s passive and active. So every time that I’m doing something in the app, if I buy something, there’s this passive investing that’s happening continuously, but then it’s right there. The experience of not having to think about how much buying power is over there – think about a young investor, and you ask them to segment their money. They’re scared to death to do this, because they feel like they need all their money in their checking account right now, but in that wallet, the fact that they don’t have to segment anything. And every time they do something, they’re getting a little bit of investing, and then they realize, oh, I can spend $5 on something, $10 on something, and six months later, they’ve amassed so much more money.

Global integration examples

With respect to brokers that are making the move to digital, one of the cool things that the technology allows those partners is they’re able to build a next generation experience for their customer, which incorporates both self-directed trading as well as discretionary or managed accounts, but more importantly, it allows them to tie together banking in a way that wasn’t possible before.

One of the cool things about our – we have a very large partner in Brazil, BTG Pactual. And one of the cool things that they were able to do with our technology was build this sort of seamless integration between having a Brazilian bank account, a US bank account, and the US brokerage account, and the ability to very easily move money from Brazil to the brokerage account, or from the US account to the brokerage account, or vice versa. And doing that, by the way, in an instantaneous way.

In that sense, the brokerage account is sort of traditional. There’s buying power. You’re moving money. And there’s reasons why we have both actually, and when there’s foreign exchange involved in other things, you potentially want to put money into a US brokerage account, have US dollars. These are more sophisticated users who understand buying power and what they’re doing. But the experience of literally being able to move money in that mobile experience instantly from either Brazilian Reais into dollars, or from a US domiciled account, and to have that triangle connected, and to be able to offer more than just equities, but offshore mutual funds and fixed income – access to US Treasuries and access to US high corporate bonds, that’s what they’re able to do now.

If you think about a traditional brokerage, client has to figure out – well, not figure out, but they know what to do. But still, they have to wire money. They have to convert money. They have to go to the bank. Sometimes it’s even a manual process, it’s an in-person process, and then pick up a phone and place an order. That’s still a world in which it’s very analog. And so these companies are making investments in their technology to move to this really incredible digital experience. And again, that’s because of what we’ve built with our technology stack.

Scaling challenges and cloud-first advantage

I’ll tell you, I think the beauty of DriveWealth is we started from scratch. We really didn’t have legacy infrastructure. We literally started the platform in AWS, in the cloud. And I have to tell you, back then, it took us about two years to get our full carrying licenses. So the company started in ’12, and we really got the licenses in ’14 and began the build out of the tech stack. And really had gone to market and started having our first clients in ’14 and ’15.

I remember those days. And actually remember sitting on a panel, I think, at Thomson Reuters, with traditional brokers. And here I was at DriveWealth, and I literally remember saying, “We literally could run the entire broker dealer from a MacBook.” Think about how cool that was. It was all dials and gauges in Amazon, and we literally could, in an instant, scale boxes up, add new boxes. We didn’t have this issue of, we have bare metal in a cage somewhere that we had to manage and deal with scalability. And so we really had this advantage that as we scaled and Amazon really grew as well.

At the time, I think they were built to support Netflix, it wasn’t really built to support brokerage. And so there were some things that we did and took advantage of some of their new technologies over time to support our scale. But really the beauty of living in the cloud from day one was exactly that – on demand. We could add more boxes. We could add capacity to handle the number of users, and we could burst boxes if we saw heavy transaction rates. Remember, back then, we were still on T+3, we hadn’t even gone to T+2 yet, much less T+1. So we had some – I’m not going to say we didn’t have our issues over the course of time, because again, they were growing pains with Amazon. They weren’t really in the business of supporting brokerage at the beginning, but it worked for us. It allowed us to take advantage of some really cool tech and to be able to scale the business as we needed.

Current scale and performance

Today, just to give you some stats, we support about 90 partners pretty much all over the world. The combined number of users across those platforms is well over 20 million users. And we support, quite frankly, not just new sort of digital FinTech, but we also support brokers with traditional FIX. And the way we’ve enhanced that is we’ve built out infrastructure at NY4, so we’re co-located with everybody else, very high speed, capacity and efficiency. And we’re able to accept notional orders on those FIX lines, and we can go 24 by 5.

We take certain aspects of our tech platform and make them available, sort of in still old school ways for those clients that want to come to us via FIX for more speed and access to the market. I would say again, also that with Amazon, we’ve evolved our APIs as well. Traditionally, when you think about REST APIs, they’re RESTful – you make a request, something happens, and then you hit another endpoint to get a status of something. Well, we took advantage a bunch of years back of Amazon’s SQS event service, and so for every API request that you make, once you do that, you basically get continuous streaming updates on what is occurring to the user’s account or anything else. So effectively, the client just needs to build a data store. They don’t need any other traditional infrastructure, as we said. And the fact that the events come in streaming now was a huge enhancement when we made that available, actually, it’s been quite some time. It was probably six years ago, seven years ago when we did that, but Amazon evolved. Their platform became more apt to handling high speed transactions, not just streaming video, but the things that we do in brokerage, and it’s worked out very well for us.

I think if we had to start with legacy infrastructure, that would have been a real issue for us. I’m not saying – books and record system that’s still third party, if you want to call that legacy, fine, but part of the innovation was learning how to take and adapt a real time API-based system and engage it with a traditional books and record system. And we’ve done that. And over the years, you upgrade it, enhanced it. But I think that worked out really well for us.

Growth trajectory

I will share with you – look, as a small company, and I mentioned the 20 million users. We started the company as an A round, $6 million A round with, I think, 38 employees, maybe mostly on the brokerage side. My tech team at the time was, I think, a dozen strong. And in August of ’21 we did a D round at $450 million. And today, we were around 300 plus employees. So the company has really, really grown.

And I’d say even looking at Q1 of ’25 versus Q1 of ’24, our assets have grown 4x, our notional trade volumes grown 3x, our daily average revenue trades DARTs up 60%. We just had an incredible run over these last couple years, really significant growth. That round really helped us to be able to invest in the business further, to go beyond just being an equities business to really beginning to offer all of the other asset classes on the platform.

You can always share stories going back to the super, super early days where you were using maybe a lower cost data feed, because, very early, and the data feed gave you bad data, and all of a sudden, oh, my God, you had a day in which you came through it, but your blood was pumping. Let’s put it that way. And that’s real startup, and that’s exciting at the same time as it is scary. But now we’re this really well established business with incredible partners around the world and a technology platform that we’ve continued to scale and build out to handle the number of transactions that we see.

Today, on any given day, we’re doing several million transactions a day. That puts us up in the top five tier of broker dealers in the United States, and many of those trades are fractional in nature. That’s how important fractional trading has been. So I think it’s been wonderful that, again, we weren’t burdened by starting with legacy tech, we really started out of the box, brand new.

Future innovation and roadmap

For us, our roadmap right now is pretty full with extending our offering – additional asset classes that our customers want and need, and as we expand those asset classes, it’s also about, how do you do that in an innovative way? How do you make, how do you normalize the ability to buy a bond in exactly the same way that you buy an equity, or an option, or an offshore mutual fund, or a US mutual fund? It’s once again, bringing those assets onto the platform in innovative ways and making them available through our existing API stack. So for our clients, the integration is very, very easy to add these other capabilities.

International expansion

I think also we’ll be having a look at international markets. Your users may not be aware, but not too long ago, we obtained our licenses in Lithuania, and we obtained our licenses in Singapore. Lithuania gives you passport, as they call it, to the EU and so ultimately, our first thought process was that makes it easier for us to offer US securities in those markets, being licensed there. Every country has a different regulatory regime in terms of how you can offer products. What products can be offered? Is it fully disclosed? Is it omnibus? And so forth. So having a license in Singapore and a license in Lithuania makes it a bit easier for us to disseminate product in those areas of the world.

I do think we are seeing demand from our customers to have access to more than just US, particularly our partners that are in Europe, or our partners that are in Asia. They’d love to work with a single provider that can not just give them access to US, but other markets as well. And so that’s something that we’ll be exploring over the coming quarters, as to whether we think it’s an important thing to expand right now.

We’re very focused, though, on continuing to offer the remainder of the core US offerings, because that, particularly in South America, there’s huge demand for fixed income products and mutual funds, and so that’s where a lot of our energy is right now.

Inside Mastercard’s push to move LATAM’s small retailers beyond cash

Mastercard's Walter Pimenta on Tearshet Podcast about Latam payments

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Across Latin America, we’re witnessing a massive shift as regions traditionally dominated by cash transactions begin embracing digital financial tools. This transition represents more than just technological adoption—it’s creating new economic opportunities, enhancing financial inclusion, and building resilience against growing cybersecurity threats.

The numbers tell a compelling story: a $448.4 billion digital payment opportunity exists across Latin America, the Caribbean, and the U.S. With nearly 12 million small retailers processing $362 billion in B2C sales — 43% still in cash —a nd 90% of B2B transactions between small retailers and suppliers handled through traditional methods, we’re looking at a financial transformation that’s just beginning.

Today, I’m joined by someone at the forefront of this transition. Walter Pimenta serves as Executive Vice President of Commercial and New Payment Flows for Mastercard Latin America, where he’s leading initiatives to expand SME acceptance solutions, scale enablement through strategic partnerships, and strengthen cross-border payment capabilities.

Walter’s team is also tackling another critical trend: the growing cybersecurity challenges facing SMEs, with recent research showing 46% of small businesses have experienced cyber-attacks, resulting in bankruptcy for nearly 1 in 5 affected companies.

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Diverse markets, Diverse needs

The LATAM region is not a single, uniform market. Mastercard operates across 44 different markets in Latin America. Each country brings its challenges and opportunities. “PC and digital penetration vary widely—from high levels in Brazil and Chile to lower levels in places like Mexico,” Pimenta notes.

This means small business digitization cannot take a one-size-fits-all approach. Some SMEs need basic tools to begin accepting digital payments. Others are already looking for ways to optimize global supply chains and expand their e-commerce footprint. Mastercard addresses this spectrum by providing region-specific SME solutions. It also enables local financial institutions to better serve their markets.

Meeting SMEs where they are

Small businesses in LATAM fall into distinct categories. From individual entrepreneurs and micro merchants to more complex middle-market enterprises, each group has unique financial and operational needs.

Micro merchants often struggle with digital literacy and the cost of accepting digital payments. For them, solutions like Tap on Phone, which turns a smartphone into a payment terminal, can be a game changer. “We’ve eliminated the need for expensive hardware,” says Pimenta. “Now, any NFC-enabled phone can become a secure payment device.”

At the other end of the SME spectrum, middle-market businesses often need support for cross-border payments. It also includes ERP integration and advanced cash flow management tools. “These companies behave like large corporations. And they need systems to manage suppliers, inventory, and payments with scale,” he explains.

CPG partnerships as an on-ramp to digital

Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) companies are becoming a vital entry point to financial inclusion. Pimenta explains how Mastercard is working with major CPG players. The aim here is to digitize their distribution and payment systems, streamlining the value chain.

Many of these CPGs sell directly to mom-and-pop stores that still rely heavily on cash. This creates inefficiencies for both parties. “The inefficiencies of cash fraud, security are costly for everyone involved,” Pimenta says.

Mastercard is digitizing order placement (through platforms like WhatsApp). It also enables digital payments via smartphones. And, it issues prepaid cards through fintech partners like Migo. “We’re digitizing both the sales and the settlement process,” he adds.

Navigating cybersecurity challenges

The move to digital opens LATAM SMEs to new threats, particularly around cybersecurity. Mastercard research shows that 46% of small businesses in the region have experienced cyber attacks. Many of them face devastating consequences.

To address this, the company is rolling out tools like My Cyber. It is a solution designed to help businesses identify and resolve vulnerabilities in their digital storefronts. “Cybersecurity cuts across all SME segments. We have a responsibility to protect them as we digitize them,” says Pimenta.

Education is also a core focus. Mastercard is building tools to help small businesses go digital. These platforms focus on keeping their operations secure.

Cross-Border Payments fueling growth

LATAM businesses are becoming more globally connected. Cross-border payments also play a crucial role. “Small businesses today want to buy from suppliers overseas. Sometimes it’s cheaper, sometimes better quality,” Pimenta says.

However, traditional international payment systems can be slow, opaque, and expensive. Mastercard’s Move platform aims to streamline this process by enabling faster, more transparent cross-border payments — through local rails, supporting transactions to over 200 markets globally. “We can now deliver transactions to almost any endpoint, account or card,” he says.

The Big Ideas

  1. Small businesses are the economic core of LATAM. “In LAC, 99% of the businesses are small businesses… the economic engine.” Small businesses are not a niche—they are the foundation of the region’s economy.
  2. Digitization looks different across LATAM. “It’s a very diverse region… from a cultural and financial point of view.” Each market requires tailored SME solutions based on digital readiness.
  3. CPG companies are natural partners for driving change. “CPGs have a direct relationship with micro merchants… and share the pain of cash.” By digitizing CPG supply chains, Mastercard helps both vendors and retailers benefit.
  4. Cybersecurity must grow with digital adoption. “We have a responsibility… and we have the technology to help them.” Tools like My Cyber are helping SMEs protect themselves as they move online.
  5. Cross-border capabilities are essential to SME growth. “Small businesses today want to buy from suppliers overseas.” Solutions like Mastercard Move reduce friction in global transactions.

PayPal’s Embedded Finance Vision: Michelle Gill reveals how cash flow lending is reshaping SMB access to capital

As General Manager of PayPal’s Small Business and Financial Services Group, Michelle Gill is responsible for bringing together the products and services that help small business owners run and grow their business. She is my guest for this episode of the Tearsheet Podcast.

Michelle brings deep financial expertise and experience building platforms and tools that help customers manage their finances to her role on PayPal’s Senior Leadership Team. Michelle was previously Senior Vice President of Intuit’s business money management, payment, and banking service, QuickBooks Money Platform. Prior to Intuit, Michelle successfully integrated and expanded SoFi’s lending business as General Manager and Executive Vice President of Consumer Lending and Capital Markets.

Drawing on her early career experience as a Managing Director and Partner at Goldman Sachs, Michelle also served as SoFi’s Chief Financial Officer before moving into the product leadership role. Before that, Michelle spent a decade leading the U.S. Assets business for global investment firm Sixth Street Partners.

Given her career and experiences, Michelle brings a broad view of fintech innovation. She focuses on user-centered solutions. At PayPal, she leads efforts to help entrepreneurs navigate the complicated web of financial tools they often depend on.

“The preponderance of [small businesses] use greater than 15 tools to run their business,” she shares. “What they got into business for is the passion… and yet they end up spending more time on things that are not what they love.”

Our conversation explores how PayPal is actively trying to reduce that complexity. It does so not by offering more tools, but by making the ones they already use work better together. Gill outlines the strategy behind PayPal’s cash flow-based lending model and how it fits within their open ecosystem, whether it’s digital lending, embedded finance, or leveraging open banking.

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How PayPal for Small Business solutions addresses complexity

For many small business owners, managing finances often means juggling over a dozen platforms. PayPal is stepping into this chaos with the goal of integration.  “It’s not the adoption of the new tool in and of itself that’s the problem. It’s how it feeds back into your broader ecosystem,” says Gill. PayPal’s strategy focuses on streamlining tools through a single integration. It aims to reduce friction and give entrepreneurs more time to focus on their craft.

How PayPal cash flow lending works

PayPal’s approach to cash flow-based lending matches repayments with earnings. It is unlike traditional fixed-schedule lending. “Repayment is predicated on the receipt of those earnings,” says Gill. She describes the flexibility of the PayPal Working Capital product. This flexibility makes the loan more manageable for merchants with fluctuating revenue.

But, until recently, merchants couldn’t access more funds until fully repaid the loan. That’s changing. “We are changing our product to allow for the ability to redraw,” she notes. She signals towards an update that will help entrepreneurs recycle capital more efficiently.

Leveraging Open Banking for better lending models

Previously, PayPal could only lend based on what it processed. But open banking now enables them to assess a holistic view of merchant cash flow. “We now can have visibility into the entire merchant account, both on and off PayPal,” says Gill. This broader perspective supports more accurate underwriting. It offers larger loan sizes without expanding the credit risk.

PayPal is embedding finance into merchant workflows

PayPal isn’t just offering loans—they’re embedding them into the workflows merchants already use. Through the PayPal dashboard, users are notified of pre-approved loan amounts as they manage daily tasks. These are like refunds and chargebacks. “We are planning to add the amount that merchants have been pre-approved for, so they know going in,” Gill shares. PayPal is also collaborating with vertical SaaS providers, as well as with marketplaces, to bring financing directly into partner platforms.

Growing with merchants in the Open PayPal ecosystem

Through its open ecosystem, PayPal aims to grow alongside its customers. “We do things from point of sale to lending to online payments for e-commerce… we’ve tried to grow with our customers as they’ve grown,” says Gill. That includes helping businesses navigate newer challenges, like Generative AI and complex commerce models. “We do that through education, tools, and end-to-end services,” she adds.

The Big Ideas

  1. Small Businesses Face Tool Overload. “The preponderance of them use more than 15 tools to run their business.” This overload creates inefficiencies—PayPal’s integrated platform is intended to reduce that friction.
  2. Cash Flow Lending Matches Business Realities. “Repayment is predicated on the receipt of those earnings.” This model reflects how small businesses operate, especially in unpredictable markets.
  3. Access to Capital Expands with Open Banking. “We now have visibility into the entire merchant account… not only borrow against your PayPal receivables, but also your off-US receivables.” This broader access supports more accurate and inclusive lending.
  4. Embedded Finance Increases Accessibility. “Merchants who use PayPal come into their dashboard generally at least once a week… We let them know they have access to capital.” In-app lending notifications simplify the financing journey.
  5. Loyalty Grows with Product Adoption. “If you borrow once from us, you tend to borrow five or six times.” This repeated usage signals that the lending tools are resonating with merchants.

Read the transcript (for TS Pro subscribers)

A unique perspective on financial services

I’ve always loved serving the customer, as you mentioned, be it at the enterprise level, the consumer level and the small business. When you think about the number of companies that serve enterprises, it’s pretty meaningful. Similarly, the number of companies who serve consumers, it’s also pretty meaningful.

When you look at the number of companies that seek to serve small businesses, it’s actually a smaller number. And the complexion of small business is much more complicated in that they vary dramatically. And so far as the types of businesses that they are, both online and in store, both, you know, they have a pretty global reach and footprint their sophistication level varies all the way down from solopreneur up to small and medium sized small businesses.

It’s a really complex group of businesses to serve with single point solutions. And so what you find is there is a much smaller set of companies that serve them. And so the thing that I’ve loved about the ability to serve them is really getting to know them a lot better, understanding the complex needs that they have.

The preponderance of them use greater than 15 tools to run their business, and yet, the last thing that they have time for is managing that complexity. What they really got into business for is the passion that drives the particular thing that they built or are selling.

They end up spending more of their time on things that are not what they are core to them or what they love, and so our goal is really to reduce that complexity and really try to allow them to have that time back to pursue their passion.

Reducing complexity for small businesses

I think the complexity comes from, as you expand your business, or you think about doing new and different things, you often need to adopt an incremental tool through which to do that.

Whether PayPal offers that directly or through partners, the notion of being able to ingest it in a singular integration and not have to integrate with the new solution make it work with your reporting, having everything sync, right?

It’s not the adoption of the new tool in and unto itself, that’s the problem. It’s how does that feed back into your broader ecosystem, from a small business perspective, and making sure it all ties together.

That’s the place where it would be nice to have a single place to actually undertake many of these tasks, rather than having them distributed through a very broad ecosystem that doesn’t always necessarily work seamlessly together.

The challenge of scaling FinTech solutions

That’s right. As companies develop, they become incredibly specialized in one particular thing. And when I look at what I have loved about the portfolio that we have at PayPal is, we do things from point of sale, which is an in store solution, to lending, to online payments for E commerce.

We allow merchants to transact in over 200 currencies. And so the ability to migrate from geography to geography or online to in store, or complexity of the level of payments and how you’d like to accept payments, we’ve really tried to grow with our customers as they’ve grown.

Balancing growth with simplicity

At Investor Day, we talked about PayPal Open, which was bringing to bear all of our capabilities under one umbrella. One of the things I mentioned at our investor day was, you know, it’s one thing to come out with a brand. It’s another thing to come out with simplicity, and those two things are very different.

You can tell everyone, oh, everything is now housed under one umbrella, but as I described earlier, if that necessitates the merchant to have to actually do incredibly hard and challenging work to do the integration themselves, rather than having it all pre integrated on the back end and having just switches that you’re able to turn on and off as you’d like to actually utilize a particular part of a product.

In one instance, you’re asking the merchant to take on the complexity, and the second, you’re taking on the complexity. And so we’ve spent the last couple of years really taking on that complexity and ensuring that our products actually do work together under a single integration.

We came to market with that. We’ve now rolled that out in 200 countries. And we’re really excited about the ability for merchants around the globe to be able to adopt that single integration, which includes both getting the branded button, being able to accept credit card payments, being able to accept local, different types of payments, methods, locally in each geography, etc.

We’ve really tried to take all of the acquisitions that we undertook and all of the capabilities that we now have, and house them into one thing that makes it much easier for merchants to adopt.

The evolution of small business lending

Obviously, one of the things we’ve been tracking over the past few years, particularly with COVID, is like small business lending really changed dramatically, and has been doing so really over the past decade. And I’m kind of curious where you see the biggest gaps in the current market that PayPal is uniquely positioned to address.

A recent Goldman Sachs study came out and said that more than three quarters of small businesses are concerned about access to capital as they maintain or grow their businesses this year.

What we continue to see is the appetite for the simplicity of the product that we offer, and the way that that manifests itself to us is a very high net promoter score from the merchants who do take out that product. It is incredibly easy to use in that it is entirely a digitally native product.

The PayPal working capital product in particular, aligns incredibly well with the way in which a business earns. One of the concerns as a small business, particularly in a changing environment, and the current macro being amongst that, is, how do I know that predictability of the cash flow that I’m going to have coming in, such that I feel comfortable taking a loan on a fixed repayment schedule?

The reality is that businesses are cyclical, and there is a changing macro, and so you may be deciding to buy inventory to grow, and yet it may take you longer than you initially expected to sell out of that inventory. If that happens to be the case, then you’re on a fixed repayment schedule, as was the case with traditional lending, and now you’re in a situation where you have to repay the loan before you’re getting proceeds from the sale of that inventory.

The thing that we love about PayPal working capital, which our customers love as well, is it is the repayment is predicated on the receipt of those earnings and proceeds. Hence, the merchant can feel very comfortable when they take out a loan that they are not going to be in a situation where they’re forced to repay ahead of the receipt of proceeds.

Now, the downside of that structure, in current form is you could have paid down substantially faster than expected, and actually want to re up that inventory. And in today’s environment, which we are looking to change, we haven’t given you the ability to redraw on that loan ahead of the full repayment.

What ends up happening is, let’s just say that you have a small tail out there that you haven’t repaid. You’re in a position where you can’t redraw, and if you would like to recycle that capital and really put it back into inventory, you have to wait. And so we are changing our product to allow for the ability to redraw such that merchants can have the flexibility as repayments may come in faster than expected, to actually have access to that capital, to continue to double down on the growth of their business.

Product evolution and underwriting

It won’t be a difference in credit, right? Because realistically, it’s the same merchant that one is underwriting and you’re underrating again the ability to repay those proceeds. And so the underwriting box actually remains quite similar.

It’s really more of both a policy change as well as a technology change, a policy change. In the context of today, you cannot re borrow unless and until you’ve repaid. So you cannot have two PayPal working capital loans outstanding at the same time.

In the future, in order to allow this to happen, we would want to be able to have you have two PayPal working capital loans outstanding at the same time, which requires, again, like I said, both a technology change on our side as well as a policy change.

Advancements in underwriting technology

It used to be the case that we relied almost exclusively on PayPal data.

What I mean by that is, if you’re a merchant and you sell whatever your goods are that you sell and you receive X percent of your payments through PayPal, you could only borrow against that portion of your receivables, because that’s what you had visibility into.

Now, with the advent of open banking, we have visibility into the entire merchant account, both the receivables that they receive on PayPal as well as those that they receive off PayPal. And so we’ve recently introduced the ability to not only borrow against your paypal receivables, but also your off us receivables, because we now have the ability to have visibility into your entire business and the receivables, and the ability to collect against both of those.

That has been a very meaningful change. We’ve seen our customers that really have gotten to take advantage of this be very happy with that change.

The other change is, as I mentioned before, by consolidating all of the properties within PayPal, some of the receivables that were coming in at the physical point of sale, you couldn’t re borrow against, or you couldn’t borrow against, and now you have the ability to borrow against those as well.

What we’ve really done, again, with that single integration point is allowed all of that data to flow for both the PayPal receivables and then again, the ability to ingest that third party data and make credit decisions based on the holistic picture.

Embedding financial solutions into business workflows

The way in which we do it today is one way, and then we intend to actually expand on that pretty meaningfully.

The way in which we do it today is merchants who use PayPal come into their dashboard, generally, at least once a week, if not greater than that, and they review their outstanding receivables, whether they’ve had any disputes, refunds, chargebacks, etc.

As part of that, on that dashboard, we actually let them know that they could actually have access to capital. And we see a lot of that through the dashboard, both on the app and on the web.

We are planning to add to that, the amount that merchants have been pre approved for, so that they know going in. Here’s how much you’ve been pre approved for. And again, one of the biggest complaints has been loan size. But now, again, as I mentioned, with the advent of open banking and the ability to lend against a broader swath of receivables, there really should be the capability to achieve the loan size that merchants are looking for. So that’s one way.

Then you mentioned embedded finance. The other thing that we are working on with some of our larger partners is also embedding it into their experience, and making sure that as merchants log on to their experience, which may be something that is more persistent. You know, they also have access through that experience.

Lending is one of those things because of licensing is a little bit harder to white label. However, trying to make sure that it really fits into their experience, we’ve done a couple of tests with some partners where partners were looking for their merchants to upgrade the integration on the partner, and we’ve financed that integration, and really given a discount, actually on the amount charged to the merchant to borrow for that integration.

We’ve really enjoyed working with our partners to help them grow, and using lending as really an ability for them to help create the growth solutions that they want for both their merchants and themselves.

The changing landscape of small business finance

I think that when you look at small business lending, it really, despite the fact that everybody understands the need, I wouldn’t say there’s been a massive expansion of the amount of lending that is being done globally relative to the need in the market.

It is a very wide open space with a much bigger need than there is supply of capital. And I think the really interesting thing is, when we talk to investors who are interested in the asset side of this, there’s a lot of appetite for this asset.

I think people understand that it’s an incredibly interesting asset, particularly because it’s tied to cash flow. Investors really like cash flow based lending. It’s incredibly tangible. And so it feels as though there continues to be a dearth of supply of capital relative to the amount of lenders that are out there.

One of the things that’s been really interesting when we’ve talked to third party investors, is the reason they like someone like us lending relative to a third party is the access to data, a proprietary access to data that we have that allows us to do that lending responsibly, and allows us to do it in a way that doesn’t put merchants into a cycle of debt, that doesn’t actually hurt businesses, but instead helps them grow, is what they really like.

They like being part of that story. They like the history that we’ve had in the business, and they like the incredibly measured growth that we’ve had.

Interestingly, as we look at expanding, we’re not really meaningfully expanding the credit box. We’re expanding in the ways I just talked about, right, bringing in third party data that allows us to better underwrite the customer and be able to underwrite them for larger loans, serving segments of the market that we haven’t served historically, because we haven’t done loan sizes that are lower or higher.

I talked about that a little bit at our investor day. Is really a focus for this year of trying to ensure that we can really grow the base that we can provide capital to.

We are incredibly excited about all of these things, because we do think that businesses have and will continue to have a need for capital to facilitate growth, and the ability to do so at such an early stage in a company’s life is what can be a real difference maker in their ability to compete.

One of the things that we hear from our merchants all the time is, yeah, sure, everyone will lend to me once I’m successful and at large, it’s when I am starting out and I really need the capital. That’s when PayPal was there for me. And I will never forget that.

I think that’s something that really shows true. As I mentioned earlier, the Net Promoter Score and it again, it is much easier for a company like us, with the data that we have and the insights that we have into these small businesses, to be able to be there for them when they are smaller, and then to stay with them as they are growing, because we can uniquely meet their needs, because we understand their cash flow.

Creating a virtuous cycle

[Growth in the product has been almost exclusively organic. We really haven’t done much outside the ecosystem to inform and so we’ve started testing really trying to get to our merchants, not just through internal channels, but also external.

I 100% agree with you. I think what we see is, if you borrow ones from us, you tend to borrow five or six times, which is evidence of the fact that you like the product and that it is working for you.

I think the other thing that we see is, as you are borrowing, we do see meaningful growth in the businesses that do borrow, which is amazing. And then lastly, we also see that the more products you adopt, the greater your persistence and longevity is on the platform.

The things that we get excited about are the notion that the more PayPal receivables that you have, the greater amount that you can borrow. Obviously, the receivables that are off us are quote, unquote riskier to us in terms of the ability to collect against them, etc.

Yes, it 100% creates a virtual cycle of the more merchants do with us, the more like they grow, both for themselves and on us, and we really want to help facilitate that growth. That’s what we’re all about.

The future of small business financial services

So I think you’re one of a handful of people that sort of been at the epicenter of this convergence around serving small businesses. And I’m curious what your perspective is, looking ahead a few years, like, how do you envision the relationship between like, payment processors, banking services and lending platforms evolving for small businesses?

I think that small businesses will continue to face increasing complexity with the advent of agentic tools, agentic commerce, etc.

I think being able to be a place that can help them continue to navigate a changing landscape is really critical, and we do that through education. We do that through new tools. We do that through end to end services, and we try to take on the things that drive the greatest complexity, generally in their financial lives.

Because nobody is excited about doing their finances at the end of the month, but everyone is excited about seeing their bottom line grow. And so how do we take the stressful part of that out, and how do we bring the joyful part of that back and let small business owners spend the time doing the things that they really love doing, which is creating their product, speaking to their customers, growing their businesses in new ways.

And how can we be an agent for growth rather than that point of stress?

Venture Capital’s shift from consumer fintech to infrastructure ft. Ryan Falvey

Venture capital Ryan Falvey

In today’s financial landscape, innovation is more than just a buzzword—it’s a driving force separating industry leaders from those left behind. Finding, nurturing, and scaling the right technologies has become a specialized skill set all its own.

Joining us today is Ryan Falvey, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Restive. Ryan has spent the last 15 years at the forefront of identifying and championing market-changing innovations in financial technology. His track record speaks for itself—since 2015, he’s invested in 40 early-stage fintech firms that have collectively grown to represent approximately $3 billion in aggregate equity value.

Before founding Restive, Ryan led the development of the Financial Solutions Lab, a groundbreaking partnership between JPMorgan Chase and the Financial Health Network. His experience also includes developing payment solutions with leading tech companies at Silicon Valley Bank and serving as Strategy Group Lead at Enclude Solutions, where he oversaw global strategy consulting for mobile-enabled financial products.

“We’re not investing in fintech apps — we’re investing in infrastructure,” Falvey explains early on. That distinction underscores a larger trend he sees in the market: a move away from flashy consumer-based apps toward foundational financial APIs. It also focuses on backend tooling and embedded finance capabilities.

Falvey’s insights aren’t theoretical — they’re rooted in his day-to-day decisions as an investor. At Restive, he’s helping startups through early product development. He emphasizes practical scalability and regulation-ready business models. “You don’t build a consumer business by launching an app anymore,” he says. “It’s not about the app — it’s about access, context, and integration.”

From fintech regulation to platform economics, Falvey shares grounded wisdom. He focuses on how successful startups are navigating today’s uncertain investment landscape. What’s emerging is a more nuanced strategy for funding — one that prioritizes durability over disruption.

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The shift from consumer apps to infrastructure

According to Falvey, the biggest shift in fintech is where the value is being created. “The last wave of fintech was all about building shiny apps for consumers,” he says. “Now, it’s about making the systems that power those apps smarter, more scalable, and more secure.”

He points to the importance of financial APIs. He focuses on other backend solutions that serve as the connective tissue of modern financial services. These are often invisible to consumers. But they are essential for delivering the kind of embedded finance experiences users now expect. “The infrastructure layer is where the real innovation is happening. That’s where we’re seeing the biggest opportunities for venture capital.”

Reframing embedded finance as context, not channel

Falvey is careful to clarify what embedded finance means in practice. “It’s not just about plugging in a payment widget,” he notes. “It’s about being in the right place at the right time, with the right financial product — whether that’s credit, payments, or insurance.”

For him, embedded finance is less about technology and more about use cases. When startups can identify the consumer-based need and deliver financial functionality at the moment of need, that’s when embedded finance makes sense. Otherwise, it risks being just another buzzword.

The new venture capital playbook

“Startups are now being built in a different economic climate,” Falvey says. Gone are the days of massive burn rates and growth-at-all-costs thinking. In their place: a greater emphasis on operational discipline, regulatory readiness, and long-term scalability.

He explains how venture capital firms like Restive Ventures are adapting. “We spend more time with teams on product development than ever before. It’s not about speed to launch — it’s about building something that works, that scales, and that fits into the regulatory environment.”

Navigating fintech regulation and compliance

Compliance isn’t just a checkbox — it’s a design constraint. Falvey emphasizes that startups must build with fintech regulation in mind from the outset. “If you’re in fintech, you are in a regulated business. You can’t build first and figure it out later.”

He sees a growing appetite for products that are “compliance-first,” and that build regulatory considerations directly into their infrastructure.

The Big Ideas

  1. Infrastructure Is the New Frontier. “We’re not investing in fintech apps — we’re investing in infrastructure.”
  2. Apps Are No Longer the Centerpiece. “You don’t build a consumer business by launching an app anymore.”
  3. Embedded Finance Depends on Context. “It’s about being in the right place at the right time, with the right financial product.”
  4. Venture Capital Is Recalibrating. “We spend more time with teams on product development than ever before.”
  5. Compliance Must Be Baked In. “If you’re in fintech, you are in a regulated business.”

Read the transcript (TS Pro susbscribers)

The evolution of fintech since 2021

Well, thanks for having me excited to be back. Maybe that’s a great way to start. I mean, that’s interesting, because we probably spoke at the absolute kind of high water mark of, you know, FinTech 2021, I was kind of the year. I remember, you know, you talked to other investors, and we’d like, man, we just should have done all the deals in the last like, shoot your fish in the barrel. Yeah. Any, any discrimination in selection was, was, was a, was a negative bias. And then, you know, things obviously changed really dramatically, starting in, starting kind of in 2022 and I think to a degree, continuing, kind of to the present day, really certainly been a shift in sentiment of fintech. More broadly. And then I think also, you know, kind of a shift in sentiment kind of increased a little bit away from tech too. So it definitely kind of feels more like kind of back to basics in what we’re investing in and how we’re working with the founders. But at the same time, I’ll say a lot of that. You know, we are investors in companies, and so the main thing we’re looking at is like, what’s the only performance of the companies? What are these businesses doing, and are they making money? And how much money are they making? And how fast is, how quickly are they growing? And what’s interesting and surprising is at the company level and at the portfolio level, it’s literally never been better. I mean, we already have companies that are growing much faster and making more money earlier in the life cycle than really ever in my investing career, going back into over a decade. Now,

Performance of recent investments

Yeah, do you mean honestly? I can tell you, I can tell you the date that things change, and it’s January 1, 2023 really? It’s really looking and I think it’s really the impact you had of a lot of these new kind of LLM models, AI driven tools, especially on the coding side, it’s just dramatically accelerated how quickly technical startups can develop product and iterate, try new things and kind of push, push their vision out in the world. And the faster you can move in a startup, the more things you can try, and the more, the more kind of shots on goal you have, and the more ways you can improve on a product once it starts working. And just to give you a snapshot, the investments we made since the beginning of 2023 now make more money into aggregate than everything we did in COVID combined. And there’s probably half the companies there, and the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are driving the revenue in that kind of COVID cohort are the most technical founders, like the strongest, you know, technology solution. And there we’re seeing a similar dynamic. There’s, they’re raising, you know, very little follow on capital. They’re running really lean teams, getting a profitability much earlier. And so it’s actually a really exciting time to be investing at the early stages, because we are, we are really seeing of COVID, the total phase shift in technology, and how these businesses are being built, and how big they can get.

Impact on exits

Yes, yeah. I mean, I think we’re already seeing, you know, it’s, yeah, I know when you’re going to air, air these this session, but, you know, it’s, it’s early April right now, and we’re seeing, you know, there’s a number of kind of FinTech companies that expect to go public here and in the next, you know, them kind of listed so far this year, yeah, the public fintechs have generally done, done relatively well over the last, you know, year and a half or so. So, I think there’s definitely a shift, kind of an appetite there in a late stage, and probably see more come. You know, the stuff that we’re investing in now. I mean this, many of these businesses are probably still five years away from from going public and you know you, we meet you, you tend to see mergers at this stage more and more frequent acquisitions. And I say that what we’ve seen on the acquisition front has been, has been pretty robust. But I think the best companies are probably not gonna be acquired. They’re gonna continue to try to grow. And I would, I would expect them to be, expect us to be seeing some, really significant businesses being built, kind of in this current era.

Thematic shifts in investment focus

I mean, we’re seeing a number of things. I mean, the big thing would be tech like, I can’t, like, you know, we’re investing in technology companies, okay? And that that is, and I think to a degree, you know, we, you know, we raise money ourselves, we explain to our investors, you know, we’re investing in technology companies who just happen to be in the financial services industry and and I think that that’s, that’s a real shift from 21 where, you know, people are like, Oh, we just needed digital. Stuff is going to take over, you know, so if it’s online, it’s going to be better than being offline. And you had just incredible growth of a lot of the businesses that existed and were doing which were strong, but it wasn’t like, hey, there’s a completely new technology here. And I think now we are seeing some truly new kind of technology innovations that are allowing founders to build entirely new, new approaches to financial services. And I’d say there’s kind of, there’s kind of, like six, kind of big categories where we’re seeing a lot of activity.

One is obviously generative, AI tools. The biggest impact there is actually probably within the startup, I’d say that, like, the best, best use case of AI is creating a company. Because, you know, if you have to create a bunch of stuff, you know, tools like, you know, chat, GPT and Claude and coding assistance like cursor, are incredibly helpful to create that stuff more quickly.

A lot of the crypto infrastructure that kind of got laid down over the last couple of cycles is now pretty useful, um, you know, there’s you there are there stuff out there that’s allowing for kind of agentic payments and ways of, kind of just automating kind of, you know, background, kind of purchase and inventory management systems that’s going to come directly out of, out of crypto. You have a company in a political Crossman that basically does that allows, you know, it was originally a lot of infrastructure for nfts, and is now being used to basically just kind of automate, you can automate payments, and, you know, just kind of set these kind of agentic payments to kind of run the background.

We’re seeing, I think the service industry, particularly around like consulting law firms, anyone who is making a lot of money by creating paper tax prep. I mean, those industries are under serious threat. And so we’re seeing startups there that are just, I growing at unbelievable rates, in large part because they’re just, they’re able to create advice layer. So, like in finance, about financial services, to say, like, you know that you have, you have services, and then you get a license from the government to do the finance part. And a lot of those services. You know, you’re you’re doing something that has an audience of one or an audience, maybe nobody. You’re just creating paperwork that sits on a shelf in case someone wants to see it in the future. I see you’re thinking about Iron Mountain. There’s a mountain just full of paperwork that somebody paper. Yeah, yeah. How much did all that paperwork has to get created? Like it was a lot. And if I can spin up it, like, you know, an AI engine that goes and generates that paper, and it takes five minutes instead of five months, that’s a huge cost savings. And there. A lot of parts of the financial service industry that just create paper. It might be you might might be support you need for a credit decision that you’re already going to do, but you need to go collect all that if you ever got apply for a mortgage. Great example, there was, like, tons and tons of paper associated with that. It’s all there for a reason. It’s all important in certain circumstances. It’s not necessarily all important to be done every single time by a human being. And so if you can find ways to kind of create, make, make that process automated, it’s really valuable.

You know, think about really expensive law firms that are reviewing a law firm might be reviewing multiple 100 page long documents associated with an extension of credit to a company, or the COVID signal back and forth. You know, a lot of that’s, you know, rope, boiler plate. It’s there for regulatory and legal reasons, and you’re still, every time you do all these deals, you’re spent, you might be paying millions of dollars to a fancy law firm to review all that we’re seeing that those types of the business can get start getting kind of get commoditized down very, very aggressively and very quickly.

Yeah, we’re seeing new technologies, like, kind of Horizon technologies are going a lot faster than you’ll be given credit for. Like, you know, there’s a lot of advances in quantum the first kind of uses of that will be in financial services, increasingly personalized and really intelligent ways of thinking about commerce. So we have a company a portfolio called aisle. Really interesting. They essentially connect brands directly to consumers. So instead of like you see an ad right now for, for, you know, Red Bull or something on online, online, and then maybe, maybe you go buy a Red Bull. And then, like, Red Bull kind of has to figure out, well, did the ad? Did it work, right? What happened here, attribution, models, all that stuff. Well, now this company allows Red Bull just, hey, go buy a Red Bull today, and we’ll just pay you back. And in exchange, like, the consumer gets a free Red Bull. That Red Bull gets to know exactly who the customer is, where they live, they shop. It’s like, acquiring a customer, post purchase in a way. And you know who they are. And very cool. That. So that’s, that’s a really good example of, you know, going to, kind of the future of commerce, where it becomes a lot more personalized, a lot more specific, and I think a lot a lot better, you know, kind of across the board.

The social impact of fintech

Certainly. I mean, I think you know when. So I, you know, I started my career. I started an accelerator that was backed by JPMorgan Chase in partnership with a nonprofit. And so we’re very focused on kind of, very consumer friendly financial services innovations. So we were investors in a company called dave.com which eventually has gotten now gone public and to help consumers avoid overdraft fees. You know, that’s probably on the podcast a few times. Yeah, that’s a really good example. I mean, I think we’re, you know that, like, as a public company, he had a, he had a little bit of a roller coaster ride. And, you know, over the last, I think last year was, like, the best performing stock, and like the net, like the Russell built a real business, yeah, and, and I think that that goes to show that, you know, if you dollar advances, right, yeah, yeah. If you have a, really, if you have an, if you have a, if you have a solution that really helps people, there’s, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot in that.

I mean, I think, I think it’s been, you haven’t heard as much about them, because I think the investor, investment community has gotten more concerned about, you know, kind of consumer businesses, large, I will tell you, as an investor in a number of these, because almost all these businesses are going to consumer facing, right, like you’re helping low income people or more moderate income people do something like, You need to acquire those people. You serve those people. There’s, there’s, there’s regulatory. Historically, there was regulatory kind of issues associated with, with, we’re serving those people. And so that was one category that was really kind of hit hard, kind of in that kind of post COVID, kind of, you know, FinTech, no crash again. Underlying company performance has been extremely strong. And, you know, Dave is a public company, and so anyone can see that, you know, that company grew throughout the last couple of years, it became profitable. As you said, you know, you kind of create a real business and that, and we’re seeing that kind of across the board. So I think investor sent them will probably catch up, and they’ll probably start hearing more about those types of solutions.

I’ll tell you that is one area where, where all of these generative AI. Tools are actually going to have a real big impact, I think, on customers. How so positive well we have so we have a company in the portfolio, small, small firm called charge back and basically look at your subscriptions that you rocket money has a similar solution with this too. They kind of look at your subscriptions, look for things that you can cancel, and kind of proactively go out there and try to save you money, cancels permission you might not be be using, and really just kind of low out there go looking for how to, how to, how to save, how to save consumers money. Well, they’re the ability to that, that that service, and I’m sure that with the team at at rocket has also made just dramatic improvements in what’s possible there, because I’m no longer just looking for, you know, Netflix to show up for, you know, 1399 every month. And these tools can go through and say, Okay, what? What it like, what are you actually using? Like, right? Like, I can connect your, you know, your browser history. Like, maybe you are getting a lot of value out of Netflix. Maybe there’s a service you signed up for that you really should cancel. Or maybe there’s a you bought something and you should have got a refund because they violated the terms of service and you didn’t know. And that is just that is a level of sophistication beyond where you saw before I saw I read something.

This is kind of off, you know, not, not really fintech. But I read something somewhere, some, some, you know, business, it was basically taking advantage of these individual arbitration clauses like forced arbitration. And everybody has been forced into, like, whenever you sign up or something, you basically agree to just binding arbitration. And the reason the companies do that is because, like, the most you’re gonna win is, like, $100 and I think this company was going, I basically, basically just doing this at like, mass scale. So like, instead of, like, you know, Disney video getting to fight you over $100 and you stop being worth it to you, like, they’re fighting 1000 fights for $100 across the country. And it’s just like, it’s more expensive than a loss it would have been. And so, like, that kind of stuff either requires a huge amount of technology to do that. But I think, I think you’re kind of going to see, see more of that in the coming years.

About Restive’s investment approach

Yeah, yeah. So we’re early stage technology investors. Our goal is to really be the first money into the companies and founders we back. So we like to say, you know, nothing’s too early for us. And you know, we are probably the first capital in the mains companies, and probably about a quarter to 30% of the time, and then, you know, the majority of the time, we’re going to be kind of pre seed investors. And so that might be a founder that’s raising, you know, let’s say one to $3 million probably, you know, pre might, might be pre product might be, you know, a couple months after rolling out a product. So probably, probably earlier than you assume, for kind of product market fit. But typically, we can get a sense of what they’re doing, understand what their vision is. And you might be a team of, you know, four, four or five people is kind of on average, and our strategy is to write relatively small initial checks. So our first check is about a half a million dollars into most these companies.

And then we work really closely with the founders to really help them to kind of to connect them to the broader financial services industry. So like I said, we’re looking for technology businesses just happen to touch the financial service ecosystem. So they might want to sell into them. They might want to manage, handle payments. They might want to, you know, access financial, financial data. And so we can bring a lot of expertise to the companies, and what we find is that can really be transformative to the best teams. And then we’ll look to really kind of dramatically build on our positions in these companies very quickly and grow and scale with them as they grow their businesses. So we’re pretty high frequency investors where, you know, we’re investing about once a month, we’ll find it. We’ll find a deal we like to do. And you know, like we at the outset, you think we were actually probably close to about 80 portfolio companies at this point. We’re now investing out of our third fund. And you know, we’re all, you know, former FinTech, you know, founders and operators, and so we really pride ourselves on being able to really try to become an extension of the management team and hopefully open up doors and kind of take things off the plate of the founders we’re working with, so that they can just move, move faster and grow more quickly.

Collaboration with founders

I think, I think most founders want help that’s helpful, right, right, like resistant against help that’s not helpful. We do try to be that help you with this podcast. You’re, like, probably not. You can sit there and like, you know, have a quiet room you can sit in. That would be the most helpful thing. Like, y’all need you with the dials and so.

We are, we are helpful in a really specific ways. We’re helpful in helping connect you the financial services you’re helping if you need to figure out, like a complex issue around your legal or regulatory dynamics, or you need expand your network to sell it or do more partnerships, if you’ve got a business that’s going to raise a lot of money, you know, our model is to connect our founders to downstream investors, and we spend a lot of time helping them build those relationships. And so if you know, for say, You got to bring it back to Jason today, if you know we’re one of the first investors in that company, help connect them to a series B investors, and we continue to be investors in that company now. And so we really see this as a really long term relationship. And, you know, try to be, try to be helpful in a way that’s, you know, going to be constructive to the relationship, and are going to get out of the way, or we’re not.

So we generally to that set. We generally aren’t taking board seats. As our view is, we’re really good at kind of pre seed and seed not super good at, like, series D, and like the decisions around going public, like, I don’t have great advice on who to your 18th engineering hire should be that, but there are investors who are really good at that, and those people should be on your board and and that. And you should the business should where it’s at in this life cycle. And so we are very focused on the part of the market we sit in. And I think we’re probably some of it, hopefully the most, most helpful investors to our founders at that category. And I what we found is, is most founders are quite appreciative of that, support. And, you know, they’re trying to build big businesses. And there’s a lot of talk of the Billion Dollar Startup of one person. I haven’t seen it yet. Yeah, we certainly have a number of billion dollar startups that have many people in them, and managing other people is hard and requires, you know, requires a lot of people helping, helping out to get there.

Geographic focus

Pretty heavy focus on the US. We have companies outside of the US market. But, you know, this is the market we know well, and you know, going to your earlier point. I mean, we stick to, we can what we know and where we think we can have a big impact. From an investment standpoint, this is also, like, the US financial services industry is maybe, maybe outside of, like, you know, big tech, the largest pool of revenue and profits in the global economy. And it’s a pretty dynamic one, where, you know, you have an interesting idea, you can very quickly get a lot of them. And so we think it’s a pretty good place to practice venture.

Evolution of partnerships with financial institutions

It’s gotten, I think, a lot more constructive for startups? Okay, great. I think it kind of to kind of two, two ways. One, there’s a, you know, I first started investing in 2014 2015 I was working, we very close to JP Morgan and very small startups. And I’d say it was a pretty common view that, well, we’re gonna, this will help us to partner with JP Morgan, and we’d have to be like, No, it’s not there. And that’s not the case anymore. I think there’s. There’s a lot of smaller financial institutions and banks in this country, across the board, and and also large FinTech companies that which has totally changed the dynamic of partnership. So if you’re just starting out, and maybe you’ve got it, maybe you’re a priest, you know, seed stage company, you’ve got a product in market, you can go and find like, stage appropriate partnerships, whether that’s an issue and maybe, maybe through handling payments. There’s, there’s banks that will do that if you’re looking to kind of, you know, sell into larger incumbents, or there’s kind of smaller, larger incumbents that will, that will buy the product and test it out.

And I think that the kind of that, let’s say that mid market category of financial services businesses that might do, you know, 50 to a couple 100 million dollars in revenue is they’re. Actually very smart now on technology. And there’s a whole more than I could that I know that would, that would be able, that would be excited to partner with startups, almost any stage, in any category. And then I think the larger financial institutions have also gotten very sophisticated, and for the most part, and how they engage with, kind of with startups, you know many of them, you know, many of the the venture capital programs, internal ones that they started, you know, maybe a decade ago now, are actually very sophisticated, really well run organizations that behave, you know, quite similar to VC funds. And so they’re looking for, they’re looking for investments that are going to make money for their companies, and also where there’s a strategic element.

But they’re, they’re, they’re much smarter. I don’t say that’s most that’s not the right way to any they’re, they’re just, they’ve come a lot more realistic on like, how this partnership can work, and like, with the constraints that that they like, the limits of how much a startup can affect their business, and how their own business could affect this. Affect a startup. And so I think it’s actually, again, going back to this has actually been a great couple of years in FinTech, because it’s a much more constructive environment for those partnerships, you know, like, or I can remember horror stories, you know, a decade ago where a startup would start working with a big financial institution and just get the Death Valley of meetings and pilots and all those kind of stuff, you just don’t see that as much anymore.

Zip CEO Joe Heck: Expanding financial inclusion through Buy Now, Pay Later innovation

Buy Now Pay Later joe heck

Joe Heck, CEO of Zip, a leading Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) company, joins me on the Tearsheet Podcast to discuss the evolution of alternative payment solutions in the US. Heck shares lessons from his 20 years of experience in consumer lending and fintech payment solutions and brings insights from his previous leadership roles at firms like Happy Money and TrueStage.

Heck’s background plays a role in his approach to financial services. Growing up in Flint, Michigan, he understands the challenges of paycheck-to-paycheck living. “There’s a consumer base largely ignored by traditional financial systems,” Heck explains. “FICO doesn’t serve them well, but they have a great ability to pay.”

Zip focuses on providing financial flexibility to these consumers. It offers structured repayment plans that don’t push them into revolving debt. According to Heck, “We win when the consumer wins. If they can’t pay us back, our model doesn’t work either.”

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BNPL’s growth, competition, and distribution partnerships

The BNPL industry is still in its early days in the US. Heck notes that BNPL accounts for only about 2% of total payments and 5% of e-commerce transactions in the US. These numbers are significantly higher in markets like Australia and Europe. “There’s a lot of upside left,” he says.

Zip working to grow both its customer base and engagement. “We’ve added over 400,000 new customers in the first half of our fiscal year and saw a 40% year-over-year increase in the US,” Heck shares. Engagement is also rising, with more frequent and higher transaction amounts.

With more entrants into the BNPL space, competition is increasing and Heck argues that Zip’s focus on the underserved consumer sets it apart. “Our customers often fall outside traditional FICO lending. We provide access and flexibility that other BNPL providers might not.”

To expand its reach, the firm is forming strategic partnerships with companies like Stripe and major retailers, including GameStop. “Our partnership with Stripe allows us to integrate seamlessly into thousands of merchants, making BNPL more accessible,” Heck explains.

He also shared how exclusive retail partnerships are becoming less common as merchants prioritize offering multiple payment options. “Optionality for the consumer is what matters. Retailers want to optimize checkout by giving customers payment methods that work for them,” Heck notes.

The Future of Buy Now, Pay Later & cash flow management

Looking ahead, Heck sees BNPL continuing to evolve with better cash flow management tools. Zip is working on “Pay in Z,” a more flexible model that adjusts repayment terms based on a consumer’s unique financial situation. “We’re striving for personalization at scale,” he says.

Moreover, Heck believes increased familiarity with BNPL will drive further adoption. “Younger generations are hesitant about traditional credit cards. They prefer straightforward payment options that don’t come with complex APR structures.”

The Big Ideas

  • Financial inclusion for underserved consumers – “I think one of the underestimated or maybe misunderstood pieces is these folks really have great ability to pay but they’ve got some lumpiness in the way their income rolls in, and their expenses don’t have quite as much lumpiness. And I think where Zip steps in is we provide access when and where they need it.”
  • Strategic partnerships drive accessibility – “Exclusivity has largely evaporated or eroded across the industry. In the early days, it felt like a little bit of a winner take all mindset, if you will. I think the retailers have started to really pick up on the best way for me to optimize my checkout is to have multiple BNPLs and multiple payment options.”
  • How different BNPL providers are coming together – Other BNPLs don’t really fit our customer base, so having us sit next to some of the bigger BNPLs is really fine with us. I think we both have unique strengths, and I think that provides the best overall checkout lift to our merchant partners.”
  • The role of cash flow management in BNPL’s future – We’ll do a lot better as we move into a pay and see structure which allows us to customize not only the payment structure, but better align with the lumpiness of the consumers paycheck. So I think, the biggest thing for us to do is to continue to better understand the cash flow down.

Read the transcript (TS Pro subscribers)

Joe’s Personal Background and Connection to Zip’s Mission

Yeah, no. Really good question. And I think, you know, probably best, I maybe talk a little bit about my, my own personal background. I think it bleeds into, like, why zip and what, what’s, I think, exciting about the company. You know, I grew up in a really blue collar kind of paycheck to paycheck background, Flint, Michigan, you know, it’s got some grittiness and some underdog mentality to it. And you know, that was really something that’s kind of been part of who I am for a really long time. So when the opportunity came up with Zip and just kind of seeing not only the market position, but probably more importantly, the consumer that we serve, it was really a wonderful match for kind of who I am and what I believe in and and I think there’s no shortage of really strong culture here that supports the mission to really help kind of this underestimated consumer base. So it’s been an exciting journey. I think I’m Gosh, eight months now. So feel like I can talk reasonably fluently at this point.

Zip’s Target Customer: The Underestimated Consumer Base

Yeah, if you think about kind of the average everyday American, you know, there, we estimate there’s over 100 million in this kind of underestimated population, where FICO and traditional financial system really doesn’t serve this customer base Well, and that’s a customer that we have continued to kind of help in this paycheck to paycheck World. I think one of the probably underestimated or maybe misunderstood pieces is these folks really have great ability to pay they’ve got some lumpiness in the way their income rolls in, and their expenses don’t have quite as much lumpiness. And I think where zip steps in is we provide access when and where they need it really helping them with kind of everyday needs, and it’s created a really unique relationship that that in a unique position for our brand in the market.

Growth Metrics and Market Opportunity in the US

Yeah, yeah, we’ve had great growth, lucky to be a part of a really wonderful global team as well. We grew in the US over 40% year over year, and that really was on a couple different fronts. One is we grew our customer base significantly, over 400,000 new customers in the first half of our fiscal year and but we also grew engagement with our existing customers. You think about kind of average transaction, but also frequency. We’re seeing a lot strong uptick in both categories for us, I think that engagement is really been a big part of it in building trust with our consumer base. But I think also, like this, probably underpins the larger macro story here in the US. US is early days in BNPL adoption rates, I think we’re at roughly 2% of payments and only 5% of E com. You contrast that with where Australia is at, which is feels like a little bit of the the home of BNPL, and where Europe is, you know, they’re at 15 to 20% respectively. And it just tells you there’s. There’s a lot of upside still left in the US, and it’s an area that we think we’re super well positioned for.

Product Development Strategy and Customer Engagement

So from a new product perspective, we we really try to build products and services that meet the customer where they’re at, wherever that is on their financial journey, and our ability to meet them for everyday expenses around our pay and for product continues to be the core. How will expand that? We we have a pay and eight capability that allows us to handle a little bit larger transaction sizes for our customer base. But really what we believe in at our core is meeting that customer with flexibility. And flexibility can show up in a lot of different ways. It can be really strong approval rates with customers that largely are left out by the traditional FICO system. But it also, I think, is going where the product is going for us, which is what we call pay and Z. Pay and Z will allow us to match the customer a little bit more specifically. I think of it as personalization at scale. If a customer wants to pay a certain dollar amount, we can flex the term to match that payment date. And there’s a lot of additional opportunity there. I think the the other way that we engage the customer is we continue to try to make zip accessible wherever it is that they’re at so our that that’s has to do with our Merchant growth strategy, our in store experience, and largely you can start to see where we’re headed with partnerships like GameStop, partnerships like stripe from a distribution standpoint. So I think we’re just scratching the surface on our growth story, but 40% year over year, feels really good.

Value Alignment: How Zip Differentiates from Traditional Financial Products

Yeah, yeah, I would say maybe, maybe take it a half a step back, and I’ll probably get on a soapbox a little bit. But when I look at like the traditional financial system, think of credit cards like the incentive alignment for the consumer is not strong. You know, the banks win when the customer loses, it’s in it’s a complex product. You know, most the average Americans don’t want to understand how an APR works and how revolving balances work. I look at where we’re at and, you know, we have bnpls, have a really strong incentive alignment with the consumer. And, you know, we win when the consumer wins, you know, and we lose when the consumer loses. If they can’t pay us back, we don’t. Our model doesn’t work either. So I think that incentive alignment is kind of core to why we’re seeing stronger and stronger product adoption. I think the other thing is, is the simplicity of the product is really built on trust with the consumer, and I think that simplicity has created an easier understanding of the product and the payment terms, and consumers, I think, are really picking up on that. And I think the combination of the two is like, basically, look, we’re not we’re not built in a way that a consumer can drive onto that like endless debt treadmill where they can’t get off.

You know, these are transactions that pay off over the course of six weeks, and if they pay us back, right, if they don’t, then their access to credit is dropped. But I think the the incentive alignment has in simplicity, has created this bond of trust that allows us to really differentiate specifically with this underestimated consumer. You know, I think that the average financial system, products in services try to flex into, eventually, kind of pushing these folks into an APR product where we’re just trying to help them in that paycheck to paycheck bridge the way that plays out for the consumer. I think I’ve talked quite a bit about but the way that plays out for the merchant is equally important. Most of these folks, like you think about a Black Friday deal, for example. If that happens to be in between the paycheck to paycheck, a lot of this consumer base misses the moment. We allow the retailer to catch that moment with these consumers, a percentage of our customer base would it would have had to abandon their cart in those situations and wait for their paycheck to come in. So I think like that incremental lift is something very unique to zip within our. Our merchant partnerships.

Distribution Channels and Strategic Partnerships

Yeah, yeah. Let me, let me break up the two questions, both are really, really important to how the markets moving around. One is like, I think exclusivity is largely evaporated or eroded across the industry. I think you look at kind of the early days, it felt like a little bit of a winner take all mindset, if you will. I think the retailers have started to really pick up on the best way for me to optimize my checkout is to have multiple bnpls, multiple payment options, meet the consumers with the payment option that best fits them. I think this is where zip really excels. You know, are the other payment options, other bnpls don’t really fit our customer base, so having us sit next to some of the bigger bnpls is really fine with us. I think we both have unique strengths, and I think that provides the best overall checkout lift to our our Merchant partners. So I would say from an exclusivity standpoint, it makes sense here and there, but for the most part, we believe, like optionality for the consumer is the best thing. I think that bleeds into this distribution conversation as well. I think, look, every company, I’m sure, every company you’ve interviewed, talks about their their resource constraints, and you know, everybody wants to drive integration. I think the way we look at some of these distribution partnerships is simplicity for our retail partners. Stripe has connectivity with 1000s upon 1000s of merchants, and really kind of taking a one to many approach with partners that like stripe from a B to B to B standpoint is really important for our scalability. I think you’ve seen some of our or the other bnpls Really push on those partnerships were in kind of our early days of optimizing those as well. And so when, again, kind of coming back to our growth story, I think we’ve done really, really well, but there’s a ton of room left with with the execution around our go to market.

Meeting Consumers Where They Are: Key Retail Focus Areas

Yeah, yeah, for zip in particular, going back to this underestimated consumer, really, it’s about meeting them where they’re at and where they’re at, usually, is like bridging day to day needs, and that can include things like groceries, Bill Pay, and I think the traditional way to think about, or the traditional way finances thought about, this is through a kind of a pretty high judgment point of view. Is like, oh my gosh, you’re using credit for groceries. Well, you look at what I don’t know. I use my Amex card for groceries. The 30 day float gives me a lot of optionality to figure out where and what I want to use cash on and vice versa. I think that’s what we’re seeing. A lot of the BNPL usage around as well, is that float is creating a lot of flexibility for this paycheck to paycheck consumer, to manage their money in the way they want and and I think really it’s the way they want. I wanted to emphasize the I think traditionally you think of even budgeting, it’s like, hey, strip out coffee from your your budget. Well, if budget, if coffee is where you really find you know, a respite in your life. Cutting out coffee is an unsustainable budgetary cut, and I think what we want to strive for is continuing to meet this consumer, wherever they’re at in their financial journey, provide access to easy, simple, flexible credit in a way that doesn’t get them trapped on a debt treadmill. And I think that simplicity kind of shows up in the way the product works.

The Evolution of BNPL Adoption in the United States

Yeah, it’s an interesting question. I don’t think any of us know exactly where. I think you look at our customer base, you know, largely in between. Call it, you know, 25 and 34 so we’re not talking, you know, the super young crowd, and we’re not talking about, you know, the older crowd either yet. But I think what we’re seeing is familiarity and understanding of the product really emerge over these last couple of years. So when I think about, you know, this group of of consumers, call it 100 plus million that are really frustrated with the financial system as it sits today, the judgment that it’s associated with it, you know, you make a mistake and FICO will haunt you for seven years, like you’re starting to see that show up, not only in our customer base, but in the younger crowd coming up into the system. There’s a fear of the like a credit card and how I can get potentially trapped. So when I think about this kind of broader trend of wanting to be out of debt, stay out of debt, BNPL offers a lot of the flexibility without without the complexity. And so I think we’ll continue to see an emergence, kind of, across the all segments as kind of the stigma has eroded around what BNPL is and how it’s used. And I think you can see that in a lot of the recent studies that have been released around just like how people are using BNPL, the payback behavior in particular, you know, the the average loan for us, you know, we get 98% plus payback. If you contrasted that with a similar like for like at a credit card, you’re, you’re only in the 90s. So that, that simplicity and trust that’s being built, I think, I think, is kind of the bridge from that, you know, pretty high delinquency rate to to where zip performs.

Regulatory Preparation and Compliance Approach

Yeah, well, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, there’s lots of patterns in the world, right? I think if you look at the way buy now, pay later, kind of grew up in Australia in particular, zip has always been at the forefront of kind of regulatory fit for purpose, for the consumer. We’ve always been consumer centric, which means, like, we want to take a mindset of anticipating what regulation could or should look like, and I think we’ve we’ve done that here in the US as well. I think always keeping the consumers best interests at heart allows you to really structure your product and your services in a highly compliant way. We here in the US use a bank partnership and have for quite some time, web banks a terrific partner for us, and I think that puts us on a pretty clean regulatory positioning.

Future Vision: Addressing Cash Flow Challenges for Consumers

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I think the world of FinTech, and again, this will be a little soap boxy, but I think the world of FinTech largely has been taking offline products and putting them online like that was, that was early days. You know, it felt transformational, I think for a lot of us in those early days. But I think as we evolve, it’s now more trying to think through like, what those consumer experiences are really going to look like, what the merchants are going to need. And I think the the large part, for me is, I think we’re going to continue to just double down on our consumer base. It’s, it’s an underestimated population that I think is largely ignored and or judged pretty quickly from, like the FICO system.

So what I mean by that is, like, I always kind of tell the story of, you know, this paycheck to paycheck consumer largely lives in the moment. They’re probably better with where every dollar is going than any of us are. And I think trying to meet them and understand their cash flow needs and the lumpiness is really where zip I think, plays a role, and we’re doing that already with with our buy now, pay later, product. I think we’ll do a lot better as we move into a pay and see structure which allows us to customize not only the payment structure, but better aligned with the lumpiness of the consumers paycheck. So I think, I think the biggest thing for us to do is to continue to better understand the cash flow down. Dynamics of the consumer. I think that one makes our underwriting stronger, but I think it better positions us where the consumers aren’t paying late fees, they’re not paying pay or payment date change fees. They’re really just focused on us meeting them in the moment with the right product that puts them in the best chance to be successful and and to so to me, that cash flow data is is an area where I think we’ll continue to invest in in invest in our consumer.

Providing Visibility into Financial Lumpiness

Yeah, that’s a good, good clarification, yeah, so when you think about the lumpiness and living kind of in the moment, like you don’t really anticipate things, right? So like, think about getting a flat tire. You get a flat tire, your immediate decision is like, do I deploy cash on that flat tire to repair it, or do I because I got groceries this week, like, but I’m not thinking about the fact that I probably have a $200 heat bill in two months, or in two weeks. I probably have rent due in three weeks. And really trying to better match, like, the optimization of how I’m leveraging my cash, how I’m leveraging credit. Really, that’s where I think we can play a stronger role. Is like, meet the consumer in that moment of distress, potentially distress or opportunity both. Both are great and provide them with the option set to maximize the moment and and I think that’s really a different path of how traditional finances continue to work. I think, I think, you know, I grew up in traditional finance, you know, they it’s always a retrospect. I want to, I want to provide some of that foresight and allow people to optimize in in, you know, this is probably back to my, my earlier days, but we know via some academically rigorous studies that you can reduce stress in somebody’s life if you can help them really anticipate and manage those both expected and unexpected. So when I think of the future vision for ZIP, it’s really helping bring down kind of the stress anxiety and judgment that’s associated with traditional finance and, you know, provide the right access at the right moment.

Finding Balance: Professional Ambitions and Personal Goals

.I would say I shifted this year to starting to read a lot more. Just, I’ve got, I got two young kids, so, like, a lot of this is just like, how do you stay sane and find time for professional I think we’re where I look at my big, hairy, audacious goal is really around what I perceive as the opportunity for zip. I talked to the company about this all the time, like there’s a moment here where we’ve got an opportunity to really make an impact. And I think the biggest you look at this consumer base of call it, you know, 100 plus million. You know, we’ve served just over 4 million of that today. So for us to have really significant growth opportunity here in the US means mostly that we need to stay focused and we need to execute. And it’s not the sexiest of goals.

When I think about and I don’t want to, I don’t want to signal too strong to to any investors, but when I think about the potential of this company, I just haven’t seen too many opportunities where the macro is there, the business, the culture of the company, are all lined up in the right way and in really, it just depends on on focus and, and I think that’s, that’s where my head’s at, professionally, personally, you know, balancing that giant opportunity with being, you know, good dad and good husband are that that’s probably the hairy part of it.

Self Financial’s approach to expanding credit access through product innovation with Julie Szudarek

Julie Szudarek secured credit cards

Financial inclusion remains one of the most pressing challenges in today’s economy. Millions of Americans struggle to access basic financial services simply because they lack a credit history or have damaged credit. This gap in our financial system doesn’t just create inconvenience – it perpetuates cycles of financial inequity that can last generations.

In my latest episode of Tearsheet, I sat down with Julie Szudarek, CEO of Self Financial, a company working at the forefront of this challenge. Julie took the helm at Self just over a year ago, bringing over 20 years of leadership experience from companies like Groupon and Atida. Though fintech is a new arena for her, Julie’s expertise in building customer-focused businesses is exactly what’s needed to tackle financial inclusion at scale.

“I’ve never done fintech before,” Julie told me candidly. “But what I bring to the table is a deep understanding of how to build customer-focused businesses that are sustainable over time.” Her mission at Self aligns well with the broader movement toward more accessible financial services: “We are only here to make outcomes for our customers better than before they started working with Self.”

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Expanding Access to Credit: Why Decoupling Secured Credit Cards Matters

For many, the road to improving their credit scores starts with tools that are often out of reach. One of Self’s flagship products, the secured credit card, used to require customers to open a credit builder account, but that has changed.

“We saw so much demand from customers who maybe didn’t want this credit builder experience but wanted a secured card,” Julie explains. “So we found a way to make that available directly.”

Now, Self’s secured credit cards are accessible without a prior credit builder account, requiring only a $100 deposit and no hard credit check. “As far as we can tell, our deposit is the lowest in the industry,” she adds. This move aims to make credit builder apps more flexible and financial inclusion more achievable.

Customer Journey: Meeting People Where They Are

Julie emphasizes that building credit is not a one-size-fits-all process. “Our customers are on a journey,” she says. Julie explains how many arrive at Self through word of mouth, traditional marketing, and partnerships.

“More than 25% of our customers say they came to us from word of mouth,” she shares. She highlights how real customer success stories drive organic growth. Self also collaborates with affiliate partners. Such as lenders who redirect applicants denied for an auto loan due to poor credit scores, offering them a way to rebuild credit.

Beyond products, education plays a key role. “Sixty-five percent of our customers say they had no financial education growing up,” Julie notes. Self responds with resources aimed at demystifying credit, interest rates, and savings strategies.

Building a Fintech Product Suite for Long-Term Customer Needs

Since becoming CEO, Julie has focused on broadening Self’s product offerings. Especially beyond secured credit cards and credit builder accounts. “One of the things I noticed when I started was that we were limited in the number of products we had,” she says.

Customers who completed their credit-building journey had nowhere else to go. “We were just saying goodbye to customers,” Julie reflects. Now, Self is working on graduation products, like unsecured credit cards. The aim is to serve customers as they move forward financially.

“We should be keeping customers on our platform forever,” Julie states. This approach also aligns with fintech solutions focused on lifetime customer value.

Partnerships and Fintech Collaboration for Broader Access

The collaboration with traditional banks and organizations is essential to expanding Self’s reach. “We have partnerships with banks like Regions Bank, which offers our rent reporting solution to their customers,” she says.

Julie says that organizations like Pathway Homes found a connection between homeownership success and Self’s products. Customers who succeeded in homeownership often had Self’s products on their credit reports. This demonstrates the positive impact of Self’s products on financial outcomes. “They reached out to us because they kept seeing Self show up in their customers’ credit files,” Julie recounts.

These partnerships extend Self’s mission of financial inclusion. They do so by embedding credit-building tools into larger ecosystems.

The Big Ideas

  1. Decoupling Secured Credit Cards for Easier Access. “We decoupled the secured card so customers don’t need a credit builder account first. It’s about reducing barriers.”
  2. The Power of Low Deposit and No Credit Check. “Our deposit is $100, and for many, there’s no hard credit check. That makes it much less intimidating for people facing rejection.”
  3. Customer Education as a Core Focus. “About 65% of our customers say they had no financial education. So we focus on teaching them about interest, compounding, and managing credit.”
  4. Expanding Product Offerings to Keep Customers Engaged. “We were limited in what we offered. Now we’re focusing on products that meet customers where they are and help them keep growing financially.”
  5. Partnerships to Reach More Communities. “Regions Bank and Pathway Homes are some of our key partners — together, we’re helping more people build credit who might otherwise be left out.”

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Professional Background and Leadership Experience

I’ve never done FinTech before, so that was definitely new for me, and it’s been a great and interesting sector with just so many dimensions and dynamics associated with it. It’s also been quite a learning curve for me, and I thank my team and my board for helping me onboard and learn the business. I continue to learn every single day.

I think what I bring to this business is experience working at both big companies and small companies, so I understand how to move fast but also how to make a business robust for the long term. I’ve also dealt significantly in consumer-facing businesses that really had the customer at the forefront of what we were doing, both at Groupon and when I ran a pharmacy business, where customer empathy was super key.

I think some of that has been very relevant in my time thus far at Self. We are a business that truly has the customer at the forefront of everything that we do. We are only there to make outcomes for our customers better than they were before they started working with Self.

Customer-Centric Approach

It’s embedded in everything that we do. It’s embedded in our values. We start many of our all-hands meetings, and every single one of our board meetings, with customer testimonials and really understanding who it is that we’re serving. When you get to C-level people and Board of Directors, we don’t fit into the shoes of our customers, at least at this current point in our lives, so I think it’s important that we take ourselves back to understanding our customers as often as possible.

We do a ton of consumer testing. I just brought on a new chief product officer, and we already did a lot of consumer testing, but she’s amped that up even further. We do a lot of research to understand the needs of our customers, we look at a lot of data, understanding how our customers are using our products and where they’re having struggles with our products, or more broadly in the macro environment.

Then we do a lot of education for our customers. Something like 65% of our customers tell us they had no financial education growing up, and they really don’t understand interest rates and compounding and just all these things that can be so incredibly impactful to a customer experience. We have a whole group dedicated to customer and community relations, and we do just a ton of education, because our goal is not just to sell a customer something and be one and done, but it’s really to change habits and to change the life aspects of how people use credit and think about money.

Comparing Fintech with Previous Industries

It is different. Maybe finance and health aren’t directly the same thing. But if you think about Maslow’s hierarchy, consumer finance and health are at similar levels. With the pharmacy business that I was running, I think there’s a lot of overlap there, just in terms of how you have to think about the customers and how near and dear these topics are to their lives and to survival.

With Groupon, the centricity probably came more on the side of the merchants that we worked with. Groupon is a marketplace with customers like you and me, and then Mom and Pop merchants that are like the corner shops. Many of the challenges that those corner shop merchants have can be very similar to experiences that our customers have. They are trying to pay for their goods and services, trying to make payroll, and they don’t know how to do marketing to get customers to come in the door.

For many of these small and medium businesses, it was their livelihood that was coming from the business, and Groupon could help them obtain more customers profitably. So there are definite corollaries, although they’re not perfectly direct.

Secured Card Product Innovation

Just so listeners who don’t know what a secured card is understand: it looks like a credit card, but you actually have a deposit that you put in place that funds the card. It’s a great way for people who are new to credit, or who have had trouble using credit cards in the past, to get reacquainted with credit.

We have had this card forever. However, up until recently, you would have needed to have one of our other products first in order to access the card. We have a product called a credit builder account, which helps customers improve their credit history. Up until we launched this secured card “into the wild,” you would have first had to have this other product from us.

We saw so much demand from customers who maybe didn’t want this credit builder experience, but wanted a secured card. And so we found a way to make that available to customers directly.

The beautiful thing about our secured card is that it has a very low deposit requirement of $100, and for a lot of our customers, there’s no hard credit pull. The credit check is one of my learnings coming into FinTech. To people who have trouble with credit, it’s like a bad word that you just don’t say, because it is so terrifying. There’s so much rejection that people experience when they do a credit check and get rejected. It’s like one of my kids getting a bad grade on a test – it’s that severe.

The fact that we have this very low deposit, no credit check requirement – we think our deposit is the lowest in the industry as far as we can tell – is super attractive to customers who are really trying to get themselves back on track with a card.

Customer Acquisition and Journey

We use a variety of different marketing channels, but one of my proudest stats is that more than 25% of our customers say they came to us from word of mouth. They heard about us from their friend who had a great experience and had a positive outcome using Self.

We use typical marketing channels as well – Google, Facebook, and Instagram. On our social channels, we do a lot of educational content that actually brings people to us. We have Monique, who is our spokeswoman, and she speaks to customers about learning how credit works and why it’s important.

We have a partnership with the Spurs basketball team in San Antonio. It’s hard to measure some of that marketing, but with the Spurs, we have a very shared focus on customer and community, so they’ve been a great partner to us.

We also work with a lot of affiliate partners who send us traffic. Often, maybe a customer comes to get an auto loan from someone, and they don’t qualify because their credit score isn’t high enough. That lender might send their customer to us. The customer comes to us and gets a credit builder account, which helps them learn how to save and build habits and teaches them about credit. Then they’re able to go back after a period of time with a better credit score and maybe get that car loan.

Customers come to us at self.inc, choose the path they want to go down in terms of the products we offer, go through an onboarding flow, and then start using the product.

Product Ecosystem and Customer Progression

Do you remember being a child and having these wooden Russian dolls that fit within each other? Our product that we launched, the credit builder account, is essentially a CD that customers put money into every single month. As they do that and make on-time payments into that loan (it’s a “loan” because they get most of the money back at the end), we report those payments to the credit bureaus. On-time payments are one of the key components that go into your credit score.

If you have $100 saved in that account through your credit-building account, then we can offer you the secured card that we’ve just been talking about, because you’ve saved up that $100 deposit. It works like magic – you don’t have to do anything else. You click a button and say, “Yes, I would like this card,” and then lo and behold, in your mail whenever it comes, you have a card in your box. For many of our customers, that’s the first time they’ve ever had a card.

Within our internal marketing and lifecycle marketing, once you’re on a product with us, we are pretty good at promoting other products to you. Last year, we launched a product that reports your positive rent payments to the credit bureaus. Rent is a huge cost for many of our customers, and my mortgage gets reported so I get credit for that, but why shouldn’t someone’s rent get reported? It just feels fair. It’s a huge payment they’re able to make every single month.

We launched a free version of that product, and we’ve had really good uptake. After customers sign up for that and see positive results, we are able to cross-sell them to other products within our ecosystem. It’s been fun really being able to keep selling customers on new products that are going to help in their credit journey, and providing credit access through some of these products that we have. Customers love us, and they want more from us, which is great.

Strategic Vision and Leadership Changes

I have a very patient and excited board of directors, but at the end of the day, many of them are investors, and their goal is to have a positive outcome. But they’re very patient, which is wonderful, because they want the right outcome for the business and for the customer.

One of the things I noticed when I started was that we were limited in the number of products that we had, and customers would get to the end of their journey with us. Maybe they outgrew the secured credit card and were ready for another, more sophisticated financial instrument, or they got to the end of their credit builder account, and we basically just said goodbye to customers.

If you look at our app store, we have incredible ratings from customers. Customers love us because they see positive outcomes using us, but we have nothing else to offer them. Tying together our investors and the product, we think there’s a real opportunity to offer more products and services to customers, to increase their lifetime value while providing incredible opportunities for these customers to improve their financial standing.

One of my first big hires was a chief product officer, Shilpa Dhar, who has significant FinTech experience at PayPal, Venmo, Coinbase, and HubSpot. She’s helping us figure out our strategic product roadmap that makes sense for the customer base we have and how to keep customers on our platform forever. You see a lot of banks that have had customers forever, and we should be doing the same, because I think our customers like us better than they like the average bank.

You’ll continue to see us offering customers products that meet them on this journey that they’re on. Customers would often leave us and go get other financial products, so why shouldn’t we be offering those financial products? One of our graduation products is an unsecured credit card, which is a natural progression from a secured card, but I think you’ll continue to see us doing more things like that.

I also recently brought on a people leader who is helping us with our transformation. We’re doing a lot of stuff, trying to do it faster and more operationally efficiently. The people and the team itself are the key to making us successful. I brought Alyssa Welling on to really help drive that agenda forward. It’s been really fun building out a team and having new people who come in with their own marks and experiences from different industries and sectors.

Performance Metrics and KPIs

We rolled out OKRs last year, and we have company-wide OKRs that we talk about as a company, and that people are rated and judged on in terms of their performance.

I like input metrics, which are indicators that have future positivity associated with them. The things I like to look at start with visitors – how many people are we getting to come and see us? That’s an indication of how our marketing is working, and the marketing team is judged a lot on visitors.

The product team is judged a lot on conversion. We get those people there, marketing did their job, so how do we get them to transact with us? Part of that is what our flow looks like and how easy it is for people to transact, but also our pricing. We have an analytics team that works a lot on pricing.

So it’s really visitors to conversions and then to retention. Those are really key criteria that we look at. We have hundreds of metrics and talk about metrics all the time, but I think those are probably three really important leading indicators for us that drive a lot of the other decisions that we make in the business.

The number of products that each customer has is important. Our customer base is always under financial stress, even when they’re working with us. Making sure that we’re helping people make payments for the products they have from us is important – it’s important for us because that’s how we make money, but it’s also important to the customer in terms of achieving what they need to achieve through Self.

We do a lot of things to remind customers about payments and to make it easy for customers to pay. We recently rolled out something where we let people choose the date that they want to pay for the products they have from us, so that it can align more closely with how they run their internal finances, and that’s been a really successful feature.

Personal Motivation and Mission

I don’t have a childhood story like James, our founder, did. But for me, the real key thing when I accepted this job was that I had a bunch of criteria I was looking for in my next role. It hit all those criteria, and then the icing on top was that we help people who need help.

I’m, by nature, very empathetic. Back to Maslow’s hierarchy – if people aren’t able to put food on the table for their kids and they’re working four jobs, it’s just so hard. I love the fact that we truly are able to help people who need help achieve better outcomes for their families and for themselves. If we can do anything to kind of break the cycle, being part of that is just an amazing thing that makes me feel really good inside.

Partnerships and Future Direction

Partnerships are really critical to us. We have a pretty big partnerships group. Some of our partners would send us customers, but we also have partnerships with the likes of Regions Bank – they offer our rent reporting solution to their customer base.

There’s a company called Pathway Homes. I think they’re Dallas-based, and they help customers learn how to own a house. They kept seeing Self on the credit reports of customers who were successful in their program, so they reached out to us and said, “It’s awesome. We don’t know who you are, but we think there’s a good opportunity here.”

We absolutely see partnerships as a big key to both how we get customers and how we get our name out there and help expand the top of the funnel in terms of the customers that we’re able to help.

Smart Tech, Smarter Loans: Michelle Tran on fintech’s impact on student debt

fintech michelle tran

Student debt is a major financial challenge, with U.S. borrowers owing over $1.8 trillion in total. This ongoing debt burden affects millions of individuals. Traditional financial institutions are looking for ways to solve this issue. Meanwhile, fintech innovations are providing solutions. These new technologies are helping to address the problem.

Michelle Tran is the head of commercial at Summer and founder of NYC Fintech Women. She joins the Tearsheet podcast to discuss how fintech is streamlining student loan repayment. The conversation focuses on the improvements fintech brings to the process, highlighting how fintech is powering a new generation of financial wellness programs.

“For many borrowers, navigating student loan repayment is like filing taxes on their own,” Tran explains. “The process is complicated. And a simple mistake can lead to missed opportunities for debt relief.”

Tran highlights how fintech platforms like Summer act as a “TurboTax for student loans,” helping borrowers complete complex federal student loan relief applications accurately. There is a growing demand for employer-sponsored loan repayment benefits. Fintech solutions are helping connect employees with the right programs. These solutions play an essential role in meeting that demand.

Employers and Student Loan Benefits: A Growing Trend

Employers are increasingly incorporating student loan repayment programs into their benefits packages. According to Tran, over 50% of employees are asking for loan assistance. Yet, less than 10% of employers currently offer such benefits. “The trend is shifting,” Tran notes. “We’re seeing companies of all sizes. Whether a private practice with 20 employees or a large tech firm. They start offering student debt relief as a retention tool.” With fintech solutions, companies can integrate loan repayment into payroll systems. This makes it easier for employees to access benefits. Some employers now match student loan payments with contributions to retirement plans.

Role of Federal Student Loan Relief Programs

Federal programs like Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) offer relief to borrowers. These programs are specifically for those working in public service sectors. They provide significant financial help to ease the burden. But, the application process remains complex, leading to high rejection rates. “Over 92% of people who apply for PSLF on their own make errors,” Tran states. “That’s where fintech comes in—we automate the process and ensure accuracy.” Fintech platforms streamline federal student loan relief applications. They help borrowers maximize their eligibility for help. This reduces their long-term financial burden.

Fintech’s Approach to Debt Management

Beyond student loans, fintech companies are addressing broader debt management challenges. Credit card debt, for example, often accumulates due to promotional offers. These later turn into high-interest balances. “Debt is easy to accrue but hard to manage,” Tran points out. “Fintech solutions can provide tools that help borrowers track payments. They can optimize repayment strategies, and avoid unnecessary interest.” Fintech companies offer financial wellness programs to users. These programs teach effective budgeting, credit management, and long-term planning. They help users improve their financial skills.

The Big Ideas

  1. Employers Are Becoming Key Players in Student Debt Relief. “Graduates are considering job offers carefully. They are looking for companies that offer student loan repayment assistance. This benefit is becoming a key factor in their decision-making.”
  2. Federal Loan Forgiveness Programs Are Underutilized. “Many borrowers don’t realize they qualify for loan forgiveness. Fintech is helping them access these benefits more efficiently.”
  3. Technology Reduces Errors in Loan Applications. “Automation ensures borrowers submit accurate applications, increasing approval rates for federal programs.”
  4. Fintech Solutions Are Expanding Beyond Student Loans. “Managing debt holistically creates a more secure financial future. The debt includes credit cards and retirement savings.”
  5. Personal Finance Education is a Critical Component. “Helping borrowers understand their financial options leads to better decision-making and long-term stability.”

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How Lower uses technology and humans to simplify mortgage lending ft. Dan Snyder

Home Loans dan snyder

I recently sat down with Dan Snyder, CEO and co-founder of Lower, to discuss the evolving landscape of mortgage lending. Lower was founded in 2014 and has grown into one of the largest venture-backed home lenders in the United States. Dan is driven by a commitment to simplifying the home financing process through technology.

“We’re not just building a mortgage company,” says Snyder. “We’re creating a comprehensive platform. It will make homeownership more accessible, especially for younger buyers.” Fresh off its acquisition of NeatLabs, Lower’s new proprietary platform, LowerOS, promises to reduce the cost and complexity of mortgage origination. Snyder bootstrapped his startup and went on to raise Ohio’s largest Series A, showcasing resilience and vision. His journey offers valuable lessons in leadership and innovation. It also highlights how to navigate the challenges of a volatile housing market. The conversation explores key topics like the role of venture capital in professionalizing a business, the strategic importance of owning a full tech stack, and the opportunities presented by serving next-generation home buyers.

Lower’s Journey: From Bootstrapping to Venture-Backed Growth

Dan Snyder and his co-founder, Mike, launched Lower in 2014 with a focus on profitability and reinvesting earnings. But, by 2020, they recognized the need for external funding to scale their vision. “If you’re going to raise money, it’s about fueling growth and getting on the radar of other investors,” explains Snyder. Their $100 million Series A from Accel provided crucial resources and strategic guidance. The partnership fueled their growth and strengthened their vision.

The NeatLabs Acquisition: Building a Tech-Driven Future

A pivotal moment for Lower came with their acquisition of NeatLabs, a technology company specializing in mortgage solutions. “We needed a complete tech stack to control our destiny,” says Snyder. This move brought experienced engineers and a robust technology infrastructure into the company. It helped in setting the stage for the launch of LowerOS. The platform simplifies tasks like digital pre-approvals, document management, and loan pricing. Its goal is to make these processes more efficient and user-friendly.

LowerOS: Streamlining the Home Loan Process

LowerOS is designed to address the inefficiencies in the traditional mortgage process. Snyder says, “Owning our tech stack reduces costs and eliminates reliance on third-party software.” LowerOS sets Lower apart from competitors like Rocket Mortgage with their proprietary systems. It gives Lower an edge in the market.

Supporting First-Time Home Buyers

The average first-time home buyer is now 38 years old and facing affordability issues. Lower is focused on addressing these challenges. Their goal is to make homeownership more accessible to these buyers. “We think about incubating our next-gen customers,” Snyder shares. Lower uses financial education and digital tools to prepare younger buyers for homeownership by making the buying process easier and more accessible.

Balancing Technology with Human Connection

While Lower leverages technology, it also emphasizes the importance of a human touch. “It’s technology with a handshake,” says Snyder. The company’s local loan officers work closely with customers. They combine digital convenience with personalized service to create an end-to-end home loan experience.

The Big Ideas

  1. Venture Capital as a Catalyst for Growth. “Raising money allowed us to professionalize the business and access top talent,” says Snyder. He highlights the impact of Accel’s investment.
  1. The Strategic Importance of Owning Technology. “We didn’t want to rely on third-party software that didn’t align with our goals,” Snyder notes. LowerOS is the result of this strategic decision.
  1. Challenges in Serving Next-Gen Buyers. “The average income for first-time buyers is over $200,000. We’re working to bring that down by improving affordability,” Snyder explains.
  1. Adapting to Market Volatility. Snyder highlights that inventory and interest rates are major challenges. But, technology can help reduce costs and improve efficiency.
  1. Combining Tech with Human Expertise. “Even with digital tools, a 15-minute conversation can save hours of back-and-forth,” says Snyder. He emphasizes the value of human interaction.

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‘Lightning in a Bottle’: Frank Chaparro on Stablecoins and Tokenization’s Promise

Tokenization Frank Chaparro

In this episode of the Tearsheet Podcast, I sit down with Frank Chaparro, the host of The Scoop and Director of Special Products at The Block. He has years of experience at the intersection of digital assets and Wall Street. Frank offers a unique perspective on blockchain technology and tokenization, highlighting their early impact on financial markets and projecting out where Web3 may lead for financial services.

“When you’re managing trillions of dollars, offering new, innovative products isn’t just risky. It’s a massive operational challenge,” says Chaparro. His insights explain why tokenization, stablecoins, and blockchain technology are growing in popularity. These innovations overcome challenges faced by traditional financial institutions, offering new solutions and efficiencies in the financial sector. Frank explores how stablecoins bridge decentralized finance and traditional systems. For example, he explores the challenges of institutional investment in crypto ETFs. His analysis covers the complexities of this fast-evolving space.

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The Promise and Challenges of Tokenization

Frank emphasizes that tokenization is more than a buzzword: it’s a potential game-changer for financial systems. “At its core, tokenization offers efficiencies. Especially, in processes like property transactions and trading real-world assets,” he notes. But, he warns that significant hurdles remain. These include the lack of robust infrastructure and regulatory clarity.

Stablecoins as a Catalyst

Stablecoins, Frank explains, are a “lightning in a bottle” moment for crypto. “They’re effectively tokenized representations of dollars. And their ease of use has driven market growth to over $200 billion,” he says. Institutions and individuals alike are increasingly adopting stablecoins for payments and payroll. Major players like Tether and Circle are leading the way.

Institutional Adoption of Crypto ETFs

Crypto ETFs are making waves with record-breaking launches. But, Frank argues that institutional adoption of crypto is still in its early stages. He believes there’s much more progress to come. “Advisors are still figuring out how Bitcoin fits into the classic 60-40 portfolio model,” he says. Firms like Fidelity and BlackRock are exploring crypto allocations. This highlights the undeniable potential for growth.

The Role of Regulation

Frank notes that banks are often held back by internal policies, not regulatory restrictions. These policies prevent them from fully engaging with crypto. “The demand for ETF products has been phenomenal. But banks are navigating a complex regulatory landscape,” he explains. He believes regulatory clarity on stablecoins and digital assets could be a tipping point for wider adoption.

Sizzle vs. Steak: Deciphering Crypto’s Value

When asked how to separate hype from substance in crypto, Frank shares a pragmatic approach. He says, “It’s about looking beyond the present hype and assessing long-term potential. Technologies like NFTs and meme coins might seem frivolous now. But their underlying concepts, like financializing culture, hold promise.”

The Big Ideas

  1. Tokenization could revolutionize industries by making processes more efficient. Frank highlights its application in property transactions. He says, “Tokenizing deeds could bring unprecedented efficiency to a traditionally slow process.”
  2. Stablecoins are enabling seamless transactions between traditional and decentralized finance. “It’s just so damn easy to send stablecoins compared to alternatives like PayPal,” says Frank.
  3. Despite regulatory and operational hurdles, major banks are inching closer to crypto adoption. Frank predicts, “By 2025, we’ll see wealth management portals opening up to these assets.”
  4. Regulatory clarity remains a double-edged sword. Frank explains, “Banks fear the potential repercussions of engaging with digital assets. Even when there’s no explicit rule against it.”
  5. Meme coins and NFTs hint at a future where culture and finance intersect. Frank calls it “extracting value out of humor,” a concept that could reshape how we view digital assets.